Kazuma Kuwabara VS Toshiro Hitsugaya

Topic started by nishi99 on Dec. 10, 2012. Last post by Kobra678 1 year, 6 months ago.
Post by nishi99 (1,660 posts) See mini bio Level 11

VS

Character Versions

Round One Dark Tournament

Round Two Chapter Black

Round Three Three Kings

In Character

No Prep Time

Setting Soul Society

Post by eddz99 (2,509 posts) See mini bio Level 11

Hahah i think toshiro owns this one

Post by taichokage (12,988 posts) See mini bio Level 20
I think Toshiro wins only by reason of speed/flight. Kuwabara is very dangerous powers but Toshiro has the mobility edge plus greater options for distance attacks.
Post by Kobra678 (3,140 posts) See mini bio Level 15

kuwabara really wa@nishi99 said:

VS

Character Versions

Round One Dark Tournament

Round Two Chapter Black

Round Three Three Kings

In Character

No Prep Time

Setting Soul Society

Post by Kobra678 (3,140 posts) See mini bio Level 15

why 3 kings? kuwabara was only fighting until chapter black

Post by SpeedForceSpider (4,899 posts) See mini bio Level 15
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Yeah Kuwabara pretty much loses here.

Post by CerusSerenade (2,573 posts) See mini bio Level 10

Didn't Kuwabara cut through dimensions? I don't see Toshiro trumping that. Also as I recall Kuwabara kept up with a bloodlusted Hiei and Kurama while they were chasing Sensui in chapter Black. Hiei and Kurama had pretty high speed feats.

I say Kuwabara takes this in rounds 2 and 3. Round 1 is debatable because we can only powerscale for his speed.

Post by UltimateHero0406 (5,033 posts) See mini bio Level 16

I still don't think Kuwabara's speed is all that. Before I accept it I need to see some stats. Toshiro's speed, ice, and flight should give him the clear win in this fight.

@CerusSerenade: Cutting through dimensions don't mean much. It ain't worth squat in combat and such.

Plus his durability is shakey and his attacks are so so. And I don't see him living through Hyoten Yakkaso.

Post by CerusSerenade (2,573 posts) See mini bio Level 10

@UltimateHero0406 said:

I still don't think Kuwabara's speed is all that. Before I accept it I need to see some stats. Toshiro's speed, ice, and flight should give him the clear win in this fight.

@CerusSerenade: Cutting through dimensions don't mean much. It ain't worth squat in combat and such.

Plus his durability is shakey and his attacks are so so. And I don't see him living through Hyoten Yakkaso.

Please explain how Toshiro was at any time faster than Hiei during Chapter black.

Post by SpeedForceSpider (4,899 posts) See mini bio Level 15
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@CerusSerenade: Hold on second. Since when has Kuwabara been able to keep up with an A(soon to be S) class demon like Hiei?

Scans please.

Post by Yusuke52 (425 posts) See mini bio Level 15

Kuwabara loses round 1 and stomps in round 2 and 3.

His speed is equal to that of a bloodlusted Hiei when they were following Sensui through into the Makai, he kept pace with both him and Kurama. In otherwords, faster than anything shown in Bleach.

Speedblitz followed by Jigen To in round 2 and 3.

Post by UltimateHero0406 (5,033 posts) See mini bio Level 16

@CerusSerenade: I never said Toshiro was faster than Hiei. I said he was faster than Kuwabara all day.

Now please explain how Kuwabara = Hiei. I don't see how his speed is you see.

Never has he kept up with Hiei's top speed. If he has and I'm wrong, then please show me.

And is this what you meant?

Cuz that didn't happen. Video 3 1:45.

Post by CerusSerenade (2,573 posts) See mini bio Level 10

@UltimateHero0406: The manga scans posted by yusuke and the 2nd video both show Kuwabara keeping up with a bloodlusted Hiei and Kurama. It's pretty hard to ignore how it happened in both the manga and the anime.

Rounds 2 and 3 Kuwabara utterly outclasses Toshiro in speed strength and durability. A sword that slices through dimensions is not something you can ignore when you understand that it basically bypasses most forms of defense. Toshiro is slower than Kuwabara as of chapter black and his ice, no matter how strong, will not stop the dimension sword.

Also, thank you Yusuke52 for finding those scans.

Post by UltimateHero0406 (5,033 posts) See mini bio Level 16

@CerusSerenade: It's pretty obvious that Hiei wasn't going at top speed. Usually when Hiei is speeding around you can hardly see him. Kuwabara sort of keeping up with them as they float through the portal doesn't mean he's moving at hyper sonic speeds. And if you'll look at the point in the video I pointed out, you see Hiei using something closer to his top speed as he zoomed right past Kuwabara. If Kuwabara was so fast, why wasn't he using his speed in the fight? Kuwabara is not nor has ever been anywhere near the speed or power of an A class demon. Seriously where did you guys come up with this? Look at it like this: If Kuwabara was so fast and strong, why did his pals insist on leaving him behind during the 3 Kings saga? Because they knew his speed and strength were nothing compared to any respectable demons which they knew they would find. But If he was as fast as Hiei, that wouldn't be a problem right?

That being said, his dimension sword isn't really a problem. It won't matter if he can't hit his opponent. As you can see, his attack speed is nothing special (Hiei and Kurama sped right past him). His swings are normal speed. One flash step and Toshiro is clear. Plus that wormhole wont help either. Like I said, it serves no function if it cannot hit it's opponent.

And now for the most obvious part, Toshiro's arsenal FAR outclasses Kuwabara's one sword. Aside from shikai/bankai, he has ice clone, assorted hado/kido, and lets not forget Hyoten Yakkaso. No matter what Kuwabara does, he is not escaping that. He cannot dodge every snowflake.

And it may not mean much in the Bleachverse, but Toshiro has centuries of combat experience over Kuwabara's year or so. Even though the Bleachverse craps all over experience, I still think it plays a part.

So like I said, Toshiro takes this.

Post by MarioRedfield (1,743 posts) See mini bio Level 11

Hmmmmmmm moron vs pretty boy...

Post by CerusSerenade (2,573 posts) See mini bio Level 10

@UltimateHero0406: Pretty hard to ignore the fact that they were bloodlusted. I never said Kuwabara was as strong as Hiei, only that he was able to keep up with him, and that safely makes him faster than Toshiro.

As for why he dind't participate in the tournament, it was a tournament for demons, Kuwabara isn't a demon and thus didn't have the eligibility to participate.

As for his durability, he survived a hit form 100% Toguro, take it as you will.

Kuwabara takes this in rounds 2 and 3, 1 goes either way, though most likely Toshiro's because of lack of feats.

As for battle experience Toshiro is a young and arrogant captain as shown by his lack of caution against Aizen on several occasions resulting in him put plainly fucking up. His experience counts for little when he is still immature as a captain let alone a shinigami. Kuwabara cuts him with dimension sword and Toshiro finds out that ice doesn't trump the ability to cut through dimensions and finds that he has mysteriously been cut in two.

Post by taichokage (12,988 posts) See mini bio Level 20
We never said ice could trump dimension cutting, but it's pretty obvious that Toshiro trumps Kazuma in speed and other aspects. Even if he weren't faster, his flight and ice clone would make it difficult to hit him anyway.
Post by DBZ_universe (15,676 posts) See mini bio Level 17

@MarioRedfield said:

Hmmmmmmm moron vs little boy...

fixed

Post by MarioRedfield (1,743 posts) See mini bio Level 11

@DBZ_universe said:

@MarioRedfield said:

Hmmmmmmm moron vs pretty boy...

fixed

fixed

Post by UltimateHero0406 (5,033 posts) See mini bio Level 16

@CerusSerenade: So? Just because they were bloodlusted doesn't mean they were using top speed. If Hiei was using his combat speed and trying to blitz like he was in vid 3, thats one thing. But he wasn't. He was just running normally and after they jumped into the portal, they were just flying through. And like I said, when he was fighting Sensui, he was clearly moving at normal speed while Hiei was speeding. Also, even if Kuwabara was hypersonic, that doesn't matter if he's not going to use it even in a dire situation like against Sensui.

And they didn't start the tourney until way after everyone departed into the Demon world so being human human wasn't the problem. But After looking it up, I remembered that his sister told him to stay. But still, they all knew that Kuwabara was still below them.

Umm, did you forget that Toguro let him live on purpose? He just wanted Yusuke to think he died to draw out his full power. Toguro missed his vitals intentionally for this reason. If he wanted to, he could have splattered Kuwabara across the ground so thats not a feat.

Nope. Toshiro was bloodlusted since Aizen "killed" Momo. If you'll look at more fights then one, Toshiro was perfectly calm, thoughtful, and outsmarted his opponents at times. Look at his fight with Yukio or Hallibel. This is much more than can be said for Kuwabara.

Plus Toshiro's ice powers have Kuwabara outclassed. If Toshiro's sword swing gets anywhere close to Kuwabara, he will be frozen solid. Toshiro will end up just freezing the whole battlefield. If Kuwabara even touches the ice, he will start to freeze. And since Kuwabara can't fly, he's kind of screwed. Plus like I said, Hyoten Yakkaso. But I doubt the fight will escalate to that point.

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