Kakashi Vs Iron Fist

Topic started by Fantasma on April 14, 2010. Last post by Fantasma 4 years, 3 months ago.
Post by Newdeath (18,555 posts) See mini bio Level 19
@hitsusatsu11: Again you are failing to take into account that Iron Fist augments his physical attributes with chi. He has increased his durability to a point where he was capable of surviving explosions that dwarf nuclear bombings. Marvel sets those points as Iron Fist's default capabilities not the capabilities he has when he is augmented by chi. Your belief that Deadpool is a better fighter than Captain America isn't plausible since Captain America has much better hand to hand combat showings than Deadpool not to mention he is one of the most feared hand to hand combat fighters in Marvel.  
 
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Post by hitsusatsu11 (10,723 posts) See mini bio Level 20
@Newdeath: Im saying normally kakashi is faster than iron fist, being able to travel a km in a very short amount of time.iron fist is only a bullet timer when using his chi to augment his speed, and even then he can not do so indefinitely. 
 
What your not getting is because iron fist knows multiple forms of h2h doesn't make him superior to someone who has mastered one style, for example Guy only knows one style (hard fist taijutsu) but i would say he is superior to iron fist in h2h. 
 
No proof iron fist could could break a genjutsu, even if he could it would take time for him to break it, in that time kakashi would activate kumui and then its game over IF.
Post by Newdeath (18,555 posts) See mini bio Level 19
@hitsusatsu11: Of course. The entire basis of this argument is based upon Iron Fist's ability to augment his physical capabilities with his chi. As of yet there is still no known limit to Iron Fist's chi augmenting powers. Yes by default Iron Fist is slower than Kakashi however by using his chi he will easily surpass him as when augmented by chi he managed to deliver hundreds of blows to a gigantic monster in a mere second.  
 
First of all Iron Fist having a vast array of martial arts makes him unpredictable in battle as noted when he fought the telepath who could predict his movements and he quickly changed styles to Drunken Fist which confused and allowed him to defeat said telepath. No what I am saying is that Iron Fist has more experience. Kakashi has never shown extremely high proficiency in taijutsu as he relies mostly on his ninjutsu while Iron Fist always fights using his hand to hand combat skills. Your belief that Might Guy is a better fighter than Iron Fist is your person opinion and I respectfully disagree with it since you are not supporting your claim with evidence. Might Guy isn't involved so lets leave it at that. Iron Fist has overwhelmed numerous fighters who are clearly better than Kakashin terms of hand to hand combat such as Captain America, Wolverine etc. Iron Fist's martial arts skills are so dangerous that Tony Stark (Iron Man) registered him as a "Lethal Weapon". He has been referred to by many to be one of the best practitioners of martial arts in the Marvel Universe. 
 
False. Iron Fist has enemies that are dangerous telepaths capable of using far more dangerous mind attacks than Kakashi so your point is moot.  
 
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Post by hitsusatsu11 (10,723 posts) See mini bio Level 20
@Newdeath: well it would take some time for IF to break the genjutsu and in that time kumui could be used with no possible chance to dodge
 
But fine if you think Iron fist wins thats your opinion, you ve certainly provided a good argument for IF as i believe i have for kakashi.
Post by Newdeath (18,555 posts) See mini bio Level 19
@hitsusatsu11: Indeed. 
 
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Post by Fantasma (360 posts) See mini bio Level 7
@hitsusatsu11 said:

" @Newdeath: well it would take some time for IF to break the genjutsu and in that time kumui could be used with no possible chance to dodge  But fine if you think Iron fist wins thats your opinion, you ve certainly provided a good argument for IF as i believe i have for kakashi. "

Iron Fist  has repelled,dispelled, illusions and mind control before, what do you think all that chi training was for. Current Iron Fist, does not tire from using his chi(Iron Fist), like in the past, you better check where you get your info, some places might not be updated. Iron Fist struggling with Deadpool is obvious PIS, and to make Deadpool look good, obviously if you have followed Iron fist, you know  who he has defeated in the past and what kind of fighting level he is i. It is obvious that Kakashi doesn't have better h2h skills, Iron Fist has mastered all K'un Lun's martial arts and many from Earth's. Iron Fist can sense changes in the electromagnetic spectrum, Kakashi's Kamui effect is a type of portal/wormhole, that disrupts the normal space and time, opening some type of portal to another dimension, sensing the change in the electromagnetic field with his chi, he will know some type of attack or trap is taking place, and with his bullet reaction time reflexes, move out of the way easily before the complete effect can take place, he has also created nexus between dimensions, maybe he can sense what Kamui is and try to nulliify it with his chi energy. Danny also has range advantage thanks to his chi blasts, that have considerable range.
 Chi Blasts
 Chi Blasts

 Stealth and speed, takes even Spidey by surprise even with unfocused chi.
 Stealth and speed, takes even Spidey by surprise even with unfocused chi.
Post by taichokage (12,588 posts) See mini bio Level 20
@Newdeath said:
" @taichokage: Iron Fist lifts roughly 350 pounds without any chi augmentation. While augmenting his physical strength which chi he has surpassed even Luke Cage and has knocked Colossus unconscious. That isn't a technique, he simply uses chi to augment his physical power. Kakashi cannot copy something that isn't a technique, it is an ability that is clearly unnatural to the Naruto world. It has not been shown that Kakashi is capable of channeling chakra into his body to increase his strength. Iron Fist does not use techniques that Kakashi could copy. Chi and Chakra are two very different types of energy, it would be like stating Kakashi could copy magic techniques. Secondly even if Kakashi could follow Iron Fist's movements it wouldn't matter as much because Iron Fist has fought against telepaths that predict his movements and quickly switches his fighting style and confuses them easily landing a hit. Kakashi will also have a hard time trying to react to someone who easily dodges machine gun bullets at blank point range and effortlessly catches bullets and arrows in mid air. If Iron Fist fully increases his strength with his chi then a simple well placed punch should kill Kakashi. Beast from the X-Men possesses agility that makes Spider-Man appear slow however when he fought Iron Fist he was struggling and Iron Fist proved too agile and fast for him, this also happened with Nightcrawler. 
 
@hitsusatsu11: Kakashi has never shown the ability to use chakra to increase his "Physical" attributes whereas Iron Fist has. I wouldn't state that it is a tie in combat skills since Iron Fist has mastered nearly all of the Earth's martial arts and has embarrassed the likes of Captain America who is an exceptionally great fighter. You do have a point in the genjutsu part however Iron Fist possesses a strong will that has allowed him to escape similar situations. Kakashi will not be able to use Kamui on Iron Fist so easily, Iron Fist is one of the most agile and fast street-levelers in Marvel and has surpassed even Beast and Spider-Man in agility and speed so him constantly moving around will not contribute to Kakashi using Kamui, he would need to find some way of keeping Iron Fist stationary. Yes Kakashi does possess an array of over 1000 jutsu however we have not even seen all of it so making speculations based on that statement is idiotic (no offense). Chidori will backfire quite badly if used recklessly against Iron Fist. True Kakashi is a master strategist and tactician, Chidori requires Kakashi to move in a straight line which is a big disadvantage and an easy attack for Iron Fist to dodge. To use Chidori on Iron Fist, Kakashi would have to find a way of keeping him stationary as even the slowest of opponents have been seen dodging Chidori in the very last second. Iron Fist being capable of easily reacting to machine gun bullets at blank point range should be able to easily dodge Kakashi's Chidori. If Iron Fist augments his strength to the same level as Luke Cage's by using his chi then a single well aimed punch should end the battle.  ND "
but chi and chakra are the same in this battle and are similar anyway. He should be able to copy that technique I'm pretty sure as it is a technique. Also even if he couldn't The sharingan would allow him to evade the blows.
Post by Newdeath (18,555 posts) See mini bio Level 19
@taichokage: No it isn't a technique. It is an ability which cannot be copied by Kakashi. That is like saying Kakashi could copy how The Silver Surfer augments his strength. Anyway yes the Sharingan would allow him to follow his movements but evading them will not be so easy. Iron Fist has fought against a telepath who kept on following and predicting his movements only for Iron Fist to switch to an unpredictable fighting style.  
 
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Post by taichokage (12,588 posts) See mini bio Level 20
@Newdeath said:
" @taichokage: No it isn't a technique. It is an ability which cannot be copied by Kakashi. That is like saying Kakashi could copy how The Silver Surfer augments his strength. Anyway yes the Sharingan would allow him to follow his movements but evading them will not be so easy. Iron Fist has fought against a telepath who kept on following and predicting his movements only for Iron Fist to switch to an unpredictable fighting style.   ND "
Well I think it could be considered a technique. Chi and chakra are basically the same thing anyway but as they are absolutely the same in this battle then shouldn't he be able to copy it? Of course he couldn't copy Surfer. Cosmic power is cosmic power and he is way way above either of there characters.
Post by Newdeath (18,555 posts) See mini bio Level 19
@taichokage: Even if they are considered to be the same type of energy in this battle it doesn't mean that Kakashi can use the same abilities as Iron Fist. It isn't a technique at all, that would be like claiming the Surfer's ability to augment his strength with energy is also technique yet it isn't. I am simply using SS as an example. Iron Fist being capable of increasing his physical power with chi isn't a technique, it is an ability he gained by plunging his fists into the heart of Shou-Lao the Undying. The only technique Iron Fist has is his "Iron Fist Punch".  
 
ND
Post by taichokage (12,588 posts) See mini bio Level 20
@Newdeath said:
" @taichokage: Even if they are considered to be the same type of energy in this battle it doesn't mean that Kakashi can use the same abilities as Iron Fist. It isn't a technique at all, that would be like claiming the Surfer's ability to augment his strength with energy is also technique yet it isn't. I am simply using SS as an example. Iron Fist being capable of increasing his physical power with chi isn't a technique, it is an ability he gained by plunging his fists into the heart of Shou-Lao the Undying. The only technique Iron Fist has is his "Iron Fist Punch".   ND "
I'm not trying to annoy you but I still think it's a technique. Lee's technique used against Sasuke was copied and that wasn't even really a technique just an attack sequence but he was able to copy real techniques also like water dragon. Many simple things like channeling the chakra to the feet to walk on walls or water are techniques or like. Simple things like that and Lion dance can be copied by the sharingan so channeling the chi for extra strength I imagine would be no different really.
Post by Newdeath (18,555 posts) See mini bio Level 19
@taichokage: I know you're not. Its an opinion of yours. Although Lee's move was clearly a technique while Iron Fist's ability to augment his powers with chi is clearly a power or ability. I frankly don't see how you believe it is a technique but assuming it is a technique Kakashi wouldn't be very skilled in using it since he would have just copied it blindly while Iron Fist has trained for countless years to perfect the ability. Let me make another comparison. If it was a technique then it would have a name, many characters use their respective energy sources to increase their physical power but they are considered powers not techniques e.g Zeus (Marvel Comics) being able to augment his strength with magical energy, Quasar being able to augment his strength with cosmic energy etc. they clearly don't use techniques just like Iron Fist uses his respective energy source to augment his strength with chi energy. I simply do not agree with you that it is a technique. If you are still not convinced then we can only agree to disagree. 
 
ND
Post by taichokage (12,588 posts) See mini bio Level 20
@Newdeath said:
" @taichokage: I know you're not. Its an opinion of yours. Although Lee's move was clearly a technique while Iron Fist's ability to augment his powers with chi is clearly a power or ability. I frankly don't see how you believe it is a technique but assuming it is a technique Kakashi wouldn't be very skilled in using it since he would have just copied it blindly while Iron Fist has trained for countless years to perfect the ability. Let me make another comparison. If it was a technique then it would have a name, many characters use their respective energy sources to increase their physical power but they are considered powers not techniques e.g Zeus (Marvel Comics) being able to augment his strength with magical energy, Quasar being able to augment his strength with cosmic energy etc. they clearly don't use techniques just like Iron Fist uses his respective energy source to augment his strength with chi energy. I simply do not agree with you that it is a technique. If you are still not convinced then we can only agree to disagree.  ND "
I see your point and he wouldn't be as adept probably but the reason why i think it could be copied is because the power source he uses is the same as Kakashi's. The only reason he can copy techniques in naruto is because they are chakra based. since chi and chakra are the same especially in this isntance, that's why i think he could copy it.

Post by Newdeath (18,555 posts) See mini bio Level 19
@taichokage: Ah I see however I'd say he cannot because even in the Naruto Universe he has been seen not be able to copy everything that is chakra based. Lets say Tsunade's taijutsu style which involves her releasing tremendous chakra upon contact with her fist Kakashi hasn't been seen to be capable of copying that. Assuming he would copy Iron Fist's ability he wouldn't be very proficient in its use and using it would cause a great strain on his body due to not being used to using technique as this was the same case with Iron Fist when he first learned the ability.
 
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Post by Fantasma (360 posts) See mini bio Level 7
@taichokage said:

" @Newdeath said:

" @taichokage: I know you're not. Its an opinion of yours. Although Lee's move was clearly a technique while Iron Fist's ability to augment his powers with chi is clearly a power or ability. I frankly don't see how you believe it is a technique but assuming it is a technique Kakashi wouldn't be very skilled in using it since he would have just copied it blindly while Iron Fist has trained for countless years to perfect the ability. Let me make another comparison. If it was a technique then it would have a name, many characters use their respective energy sources to increase their physical power but they are considered powers not techniques e.g Zeus (Marvel Comics) being able to augment his strength with magical energy, Quasar being able to augment his strength with cosmic energy etc. they clearly don't use techniques just like Iron Fist uses his respective energy source to augment his strength with chi energy. I simply do not agree with you that it is a technique. If you are still not convinced then we can only agree to disagree.  ND "

I see your point and he wouldn't be as adept probably but the reason why i think it could be copied is because the power source he uses is the same as Kakashi's. The only reason he can copy techniques in naruto is because they are chakra based. since chi and chakra are the same especially in this isntance, that's why i think he could copy it. "
Iron Fist's technique is mystic in nature, only granted to him by slaying Shou-Lao the Undying, Kakashi cannot copy it. 
Post by taichokage (12,588 posts) See mini bio Level 20
@Fantasma said:
" @taichokage said:

" @Newdeath said:

" @taichokage: I know you're not. Its an opinion of yours. Although Lee's move was clearly a technique while Iron Fist's ability to augment his powers with chi is clearly a power or ability. I frankly don't see how you believe it is a technique but assuming it is a technique Kakashi wouldn't be very skilled in using it since he would have just copied it blindly while Iron Fist has trained for countless years to perfect the ability. Let me make another comparison. If it was a technique then it would have a name, many characters use their respective energy sources to increase their physical power but they are considered powers not techniques e.g Zeus (Marvel Comics) being able to augment his strength with magical energy, Quasar being able to augment his strength with cosmic energy etc. they clearly don't use techniques just like Iron Fist uses his respective energy source to augment his strength with chi energy. I simply do not agree with you that it is a technique. If you are still not convinced then we can only agree to disagree.  ND "

I see your point and he wouldn't be as adept probably but the reason why i think it could be copied is because the power source he uses is the same as Kakashi's. The only reason he can copy techniques in naruto is because they are chakra based. since chi and chakra are the same especially in this isntance, that's why i think he could copy it. "
Iron Fist's technique is mystic in nature, only granted to him by slaying Shou-Lao the Undying, Kakashi cannot copy it. 
"
yet it is still done by focusing his chi/chakra into his fist so I disagree. It doesn't matter who gave it to him it is still chi based and derived.
Post by Fantasma (360 posts) See mini bio Level 7
@taichokage said:

" @Fantasma said:

" @taichokage said:

" @Newdeath said:

" @taichokage: I know you're not. Its an opinion of yours. Although Lee's move was clearly a technique while Iron Fist's ability to augment his powers with chi is clearly a power or ability. I frankly don't see how you believe it is a technique but assuming it is a technique Kakashi wouldn't be very skilled in using it since he would have just copied it blindly while Iron Fist has trained for countless years to perfect the ability. Let me make another comparison. If it was a technique then it would have a name, many characters use their respective energy sources to increase their physical power but they are considered powers not techniques e.g Zeus (Marvel Comics) being able to augment his strength with magical energy, Quasar being able to augment his strength with cosmic energy etc. they clearly don't use techniques just like Iron Fist uses his respective energy source to augment his strength with chi energy. I simply do not agree with you that it is a technique. If you are still not convinced then we can only agree to disagree.  ND "

I see your point and he wouldn't be as adept probably but the reason why i think it could be copied is because the power source he uses is the same as Kakashi's. The only reason he can copy techniques in naruto is because they are chakra based. since chi and chakra are the same especially in this isntance, that's why i think he could copy it. "
Iron Fist's technique is mystic in nature, only granted to him by slaying Shou-Lao the Undying, Kakashi cannot copy it. 
"
yet it is still done by focusing his chi/chakra into his fist so I disagree. It doesn't matter who gave it to him it is still chi based and derived. "
 It's a magical/mystical ability granted only to him by the Dragon's power!!! Could Kakashi copy Naturo's power of the Nine Tails, simple because Naruto uses his Chakra??? Can Kakashi copy Kekkei Genkai? No, because they are special and unique powers pass on by bloodlines.
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