Itachi and Pain Vs Nnoitra and Grimmjow

Topic started by nishi99 on June 27, 2013. Last post by 321zigzag1 1 year ago.
Post by nishi99 (1,576 posts) See mini bio Level 11

Vs

In Character

No Prep

Setting Los Noches

Post by taichokage (12,609 posts) See mini bio Level 20
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Team Akatsuki. Espada are stronger but ranks 5 & 6 from them don't add up to rank 2 & 3 in Akatsuki.
Post by Obito (578 posts) See mini bio Level 9
Team 2.
Post by UltimateHero0406 (5,028 posts) See mini bio Level 16

Hmm. Well Team Akatsuki has a wider variety of abilites on their side.

However Team Espada has more raw power, speed, and durability.

I'll give it to the espada. The only real threats to them are Susano'o, Shinra Tensei, and Chibaku Tensei. But they won't be able to use these things well if there getting blasted with Gran Rey Ceros.

Post by xlab3000 (1,360 posts) See mini bio Level 10

Team 1

Post by taichokage (12,609 posts) See mini bio Level 20
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Was I being too nice? I agree the Espada are stronger but I figured that 2 of the top 3 Akatsuki vs middle ranked Espada would be more even. The speed and raw power is a problem, particularly for Pain, but I think Itachi could defend himself for a time. I suppose it could go either way but Im leaning towards Akatsuki. If they blitz Pain from the start then I see the Espada taking it. Otherwise not so much.
Post by 321zigzag1 (637 posts) See mini bio Level 9

@taichokage said:

Was I being too nice? I agree the Espada are stronger but I figured that 2 of the top 3 Akatsuki vs middle ranked Espada would be more even. The speed and raw power is a problem, particularly for Pain, but I think Itachi could defend himself for a time. I suppose it could go either way but Im leaning towards Akatsuki. If they blitz Pain from the start then I see the Espada taking it. Otherwise not so much.

No you weren't being to nice.

Its just easier to think of Espada's generally superior physical superior stats.

Chibaku Tensei, Gedo Mazo, and Chou Shinra Tensei are incredible threats to.

In the end if you compare trump cards Akatsuki takes it by far here, its all about Espada preventing them from doing so.

@UltimateHero0406

said:

Hmm. Well Team Akatsuki has a wider variety of abilites on their side.

However Team Espada has more raw power, speed, and durability.

I'll give it to the espada. The only real threats to them are Susano'o, Shinra Tensei, and Chibaku Tensei. But they won't be able to use these things well if there getting blasted with Gran Rey Ceros.

So basically as long Espada goes long range gung ho spam they win. Which makes sense although that only fits with Grimmjow's style. Nnoitora likes to run up. In fact I say Grimmjow is a somewhat greater threat than Nnoitora due to his style. The only one possibly blitzing Pain in theory is Grimmjow depending on distance. Its all about landing Akatsuki's hax if the Akatsuki wants to win.

In fact Nnoitora's fighting style is just makes him vulnerable to Itachi's MS as long Itachi utilizes his various clones as trickery and Susanoo.

I dare say Asura's Chakra Laser can match many of the ceros here.

Post by Galenbeta (3,025 posts) See mini bio Level 12

Grimjow would bicker with Nnoitora making teamwork horrible but the akatsuki work perfectly with each other

Post by othus12 (6,286 posts) See mini bio Level 12

@Galenbeta said:

Grimjow would bicker with Nnoitora making teamwork horrible but the akatsuki work perfectly with each other

exactly

Post by phantomrant (1,288 posts) See mini bio Level 10

Would have to go with Itachi + Pain for this one. Neither of the Espada have what it takes to break through Itachi's Susanoo armed with Yata's Mirror and the Totsuka Sword. And it's an easy matter for Deva Pain to crush both of them.

Post by 321zigzag1 (637 posts) See mini bio Level 9

@phantomrant said:

Would have to go with Itachi + Pain for this one. Neither of the Espada have what it takes to break through Itachi's Susanoo armed with Yata's Mirror and the Totsuka Sword. And it's an easy matter for Deva Pain to crush both of them.

Said it before and I will say it again. Pain is a little too haxxed for Narutoverse.

Post by GIRUGAMESH (2,143 posts) See mini bio Level 9

@Galenbeta said:

Grimjow would bicker with Nnoitora making teamwork horrible but the akatsuki work perfectly with each other

Bingo. Even if the Bleach characters do outclass the Naruto ones, both of them are arrogant, have little intelligence and their teamwork would suck. I'd give the edge to team Naruto.

Post by UltimateHero0406 (5,028 posts) See mini bio Level 16

@321zigzag1: Yeah, it could go either way. But I see the espada winning 7/10.

Yes, Nnoitra is a close range fighter. But he also has the hierro to back it up. He went toe to toe with Kenpachi and even took some of his slashes without getting hurt. And mind you, Kenny can casually slice up buildings and flip over an awakened Yammy with one swing. It will take quite a bit to put that guy down.

And I disagree with the chakra laser thing. One of Grimmjow's arm spikes is enough to easily collapse a pillar the size of a large building. And I think it would be safe to say that his high end ceros are stronger than those. I don't remember Asura path doing anything that spectacular by bleach standards.

Post by 321zigzag1 (637 posts) See mini bio Level 9

@UltimateHero0406 said:

@321zigzag1: Yeah, it could go either way. But I see the espada winning 7/10.

Yes, Nnoitra is a close range fighter. But he also has the hierro to back it up. He went toe to toe with Kenpachi and even took some of his slashes without getting hurt. And mind you, Kenny can casually slice up buildings and flip over an awakened Yammy with one swing. It will take quite a bit to put that guy down.

Itachi specializes in bypassing durability with MS.

In fact so does Pain too with his soul rip or Gedo Mazo Soul Dragon technique.

Chibaku Tensei should be quite beyond anything Grimmjow and Nnoitora can take.

The only danger with Nnoitora is direct CQC.

Espada's victory relies on especially breaking through the Susanoo defense which includes reflecting Yata mirror, multiple Pain bodies which most of them have durabiity to tank some Sage Mode level of attacks physically and various giant summons used for distraction, and preventing Akatsuki's trump cards.

For example technically Deva Path could solo both of them with Chibaku Tensei as such while using his giant summons and some of his bodies as successful distraction.

@UltimateHero0406

said:

@321zigzag1:

And I disagree with the chakra laser thing. One of Grimmjow's arm spikes is enough to easily collapse a pillar the size of a large building. And I think it would be safe to say that his high end ceros are stronger than those. I don't remember Asura path doing anything that spectacular by bleach standards.

Asura's Chakra laser blew apart several buildings. Some think its city block in size.

Post by SpeedForceSpider (4,813 posts) See mini bio Level 15
@GIRUGAMESH said:

@Galenbeta said:

Grimjow would bicker with Nnoitora making teamwork horrible but the akatsuki work perfectly with each other

Bingo. Even if the Bleach characters do outclass the Naruto ones, both of them are arrogant, have little intelligence and their teamwork would suck. I'd give the edge to team Naruto.

I agree with this. Especially considering they are IC. I can see Chibaku Tensei/Totsuka Blade a big problem.


Team Akatsuki 7/10

Post by UltimateHero0406 (5,028 posts) See mini bio Level 16

@321zigzag1: I doubt Human Path would work on them since their sprit energy is exponentially above any soul he's taken before. Gedo Mazo might work but I think it would take doing the entire ritual to seal souls of espada level.

The Yata mirror won't be that much of a problem. It's function is based in blocking the nature types from jutsu, however, ceros are a different animal and the shield may not block them as easily as jutsu for this reason.

Distraction won't be easy either. Grimmjow's physical abilities have been shown to be leagues above anything Pain has shown

Throwing Ichigo for block with one hit, easily creating sonic booms when he flies, blocking Ichigo's sword with his hands, sending the guy flying with just his spirit energy, impaling Rukia before she even knew he moved etc.

And Nnoitra is supposedly stronger than that.

So I don't see any Pain besides Deva path lasting long.

But yeah, the blade and Planetary Destruction could beat the espadas. They probably won't figure out the weakness.

So it's like I said before, it all depends on how soon they use these things. Itachi has been shown to engage in cqc before using MS. And if Pain only uses minor attacks, he'll die very quickly.

Post by 321zigzag1 (637 posts) See mini bio Level 9

@UltimateHero0406 said:

@321zigzag1: I doubt Human Path would work on them since their sprit energy is exponentially above any soul he's taken before. Gedo Mazo might work but I think it would take doing the entire ritual to seal souls of espada level.

The Yata mirror won't be that much of a problem. It's function is based in blocking the nature types from jutsu, however, ceros are a different animal and the shield may not block them as easily as jutsu for this reason.

Distraction won't be easy either. Grimmjow's physical abilities have been shown to be leagues above anything Pain has shownThrowing Ichigo for block with one hit, easily creating sonic booms when he flies, blocking Ichigo's sword with his hands, sending the guy flying with just his spirit energy, impaling Rukia before she even knew he moved etc.

Soul Dragon would probably just rip rip rip. As for Human Path. Well because its a bleach character with reiatsu one could make a plausible case for soul resistance. Although if I recall arrancar are made up of many souls. In Nagato himself case scenario, KCM Naruto with multiple chakra arms couldn't prevent his soul coming out. Take that whatever you will.

Nature types include ying yang release.

Asura Path's strength >> SM Jiraiya at least. SM Jiraiya had to pass the sage test by lifting up a incredibly giant stone toad casually and probably could have replicated what he did with the summons in Naruto's case. Asura Path ripped off his arm casually though.

Not saying Pain is top tier bleach durable because he isn't but he is one of the few from Narutoverse who can take limited hits like from Grimmjow before expiring. Pain's distraction would work like this. Multiple summon spam. Path blindside supported by shared vision.

@UltimateHero0406

said:

@321zigzag1:

And Nnoitra is supposedly stronger than that.

So I don't see any Pain besides Deva path lasting long.

But yeah, the blade and Planetary Destruction could beat the espadas. They probably won't figure out the weakness.

So it's like I said before, it all depends on how soon they use these things. Itachi has been shown to engage in cqc before using MS. And if Pain only uses minor attacks, he'll die very quickly.

Yes Nnoitora is supposed to be stronger than that. But I say Grimmjow is more of a threat due to his offensive style. Hence circumstantial. Have you not seen Nnoitora's fight with Kenpachi? Very different in style.

Nnoitra is much more linear in attack, rushing up and occasionally using ceros. While Nnoitora is stronger most likely his fighting style is more vulnerable to someone like Itachi for example, as long Itachi doesn't get hit that is. Itachi does engage in CQC often enough but he always uses some katon, genjutsu, or clones along with it and he readily uses MS especially by more recent feats especially Susanoo.

Well at least four of the Paths including can take sage mode hits for a time. Nnoitora's blades should cut them though still sooner or later.

The Deva Path scenario is just an example of how Pain by himself can win regardless of you think the probability of that is. Most Pain's attacks aren't minor though. Its just Nnoitora's hierro is that tough same with Grimmjow.

Post by UltimateHero0406 (5,028 posts) See mini bio Level 16

@321zigzag1: Well Naruto has no real command over his soul so using chakra to sort of pull it back in was all he could do. The espadas are on a whole other level. Even Rukia's spirit energy makes humans pass out just with her presence. While thats taken away in this fight, it's still a good indicator of the espadas' level of spirit energy. As seen in the vid, Grimmjow used a small burst of spirit energy to send Ichigo flying.

And yes, Asura path is formidable in it's attacks. However, getting up close will change the game. Like we said, Nnoitra is close range so if he makes his way to the body. But at a distance, he shouldn't be too bad off either. And grimmjow can fight up close or from afar.

But yeah, Yahiko Pain should last a while. He took quite a stomping from 6 tails Naruto and could still fight.

Vs Itachi, his main asset is Susano'o. Until he uses that, he's in a lot of danger. His fire style won't do a whole lot, especially to Nnoitra and I made an argument before against genjutsu either on this thread or the other one.

Post by 321zigzag1 (637 posts) See mini bio Level 9

@UltimateHero0406 said:

@321zigzag1: Well Naruto has no real command over his soul so using chakra to sort of pull it back in was all he could do. The espadas are on a whole other level. Even Rukia's spirit energy makes humans pass out just with her presence. While thats taken away in this fight, it's still a good indicator of the espadas' level of spirit energy. As seen in the vid, Grimmjow used a small burst of spirit energy to send Ichigo flying.

And yes, Asura path is formidable in it's attacks. However, getting up close will change the game. Like we said, Nnoitra is close range so if he makes his way to the body. But at a distance, he shouldn't be too bad off either. And grimmjow can fight up close or from afar.

Yes that is why I said Grimmjow's tendency to spam is also in some ways more dangerous.

@UltimateHero0406 said:

@321zigzag1:

But yeah, Yahiko Pain should last a while. He took quite a stomping from 6 tails Naruto and could still fight.

Vs Itachi, his main asset is Susano'o. Until he uses that, he's in a lot of danger. His fire style won't do a whole lot, especially to Nnoitra and I made an argument before against genjutsu either on this thread or the other one.

The funny thing is Asura Path in some ways has better durability feats. It took Raikiri to its chest which failed back in the Pain Arc while it was already heavily damaged from Choza's giant punch. Deva Path though took a lot of damage and probably the accumulation was too much when Rasengan finally hit him. So the point is yes Pain is one of the few Narutoverse characters whose durability can stand out in Bleach to an extent.

The only thing about Genjutsu comes down to the whole what you think on Reiatsu and chakra. People differ. There is always the energy equivalence rule but many seem to think its similar enough due to chakra having half spiritual. Take what you will. Well Itachi's Susanoo is very durable but I dare say shadow clone, crow clone misdirection are very useful too. But Itachi needs MS to do actual KO damage.

Post by UltimateHero0406 (5,028 posts) See mini bio Level 16

@321zigzag1: Well like it was said in the other thread, even Ichigo's school mates could resist Yammy sucking out there souls. Also, in order to do this the Human path has to get up close. Even while being restrained, it wouldn't be a good idea. Nnoitra can do cero with his tongue and all Grimmjow needs is hand to point in the right direction.

And there is no proof in particular that Arrancars are suceptible to genjutsu. Genjutsu is the manipulation of chakra through the chakra network in the victim's brain. The thing is, we don't know what kind of network arrancars or even soul reapers use to carry their energy (if there is one). We also don't know if their brains will react the same way if it does work. Arrancar bodies are so very different than ninja bodies. because keep in mind, they are walking masses of hollows shaped to look human. Hell, Nnoitra has a hole in his head so his brain might be different. There are too many variables to be able to say that genjutsu would automatically work.

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