Iskander (Fate/Zero) VS Letzte Bataillon (Hellsing)

Topic started by FalconC2 on June 7, 2012. Last post by FalconC2 2 years, 1 month ago.
Post by FalconC2 (349 posts) See mini bio Level 9

Iskander/Alexander: The King of Conquerors

“Their bodies may return to ash, but their spirits still hear my call! These men are my legendary heroes – my loyal followers! They’re my true friends - breaking the rules of space and time to fight once more at my side!”

“They are my treasure within treasures; they’re my right to rule! They make up Alexander's mightiest Noble Phantasm – Ionian Hetairoi!!”

VS

Letzte Bataillon: Millennium's Vampire Nazi Army.

They are both in character. Iskander, after securing his companion Waver's safety (in other words, hiding him in some non-disclosed location), intends to stop the carnage brought forth by Millennium. He goes into the streets of the ruined capital of Britain, and faces them all on foot. Iskander does not have access to the Gordius Wheel, but he does have access to Ionian Hetairoi and his sword.

Post by FalconC2 (349 posts) See mini bio Level 9

No one? I thought this would be a cool fight. Iskander would be all like, "Halt, villains!" Then proceed to open up a can of medieval ass-kicking.

Post by Dream (7,263 posts) See mini bio Level 20
Moderator
While I know you think this would seem like a cool idea for a battle, the vampire army would sadly be massacred in this battle. The Letzte Bataillon's weapons consist entirely of ordinary World War II era firearms and such conventional weapons would be incapable of harming a Heroic Spirit, which includes Iskander and the soldiers he summons through Ionioi Hetairoi. Worst of all, the weapons each soldier in Iskander's armies have are conceptual weapons capable of killing Servants, as shown when they were able to easily slaughter the 70+ forms of Assassin that attempted to kill Iskander in battle. This means that the regenerative abilities given to the Nazi vampires wouldn't help them in this match if any vital areas were struck.
Post by FalconC2 (349 posts) See mini bio Level 9

@Dream: Yeah. I figured as much, still confused about the immune to conventional weapons thing. I always thought that was because servants can enter astral form, in which they're intangible and basically ghosts (they can't be hurt, but they can't interact with others either). I thought they could be effected by them as long as they're materialized, unless they have a broken defense like God Hand.

Iskander still beats them, but they're not completely helpless. It's still a bit of a stomp, yes. I'll admit it, maybe I should make some changes. I could add Captain Hans, Dandy, and/or Rip Van Winkle. That might even the odds. What do you think?

Post by Dream (7,263 posts) See mini bio Level 20
Moderator

still confused about the immune to conventional weapons thing.


 
Pretty much, any weapon or attack that lacks magical or holy properties would be incapable of harming a Heroic Spirit/ Servant. Physical attacks wouldn't work either since the battalion armies were vampires artificially created through science.
 

I could add Captain Hans, Dandy, and/or Rip Van Winkle. That might even the odds. What do you think?


 
Hans and Dandy might be able to hold up for a time before being overwhelmed by Iskander's armies since they're a natural werewolf and vampire respectively. The reload time Rip would have to go through in reloading between shots with her musket would lead her to get slaughtered quick though. The three along with the battalion, just dragging out the inevitable slaughter.
Post by FalconC2 (349 posts) See mini bio Level 9

@Dream said:

Pretty much, any weapon or attack that lacks magical or holy properties would be incapable of harming a Heroic Spirit/ Servant. Physical attacks wouldn't work either since the battalion armies were vampires artificially created through science.

What's the definition of conventional then? For instance, if there was a gun that could shoot lightning or miniature singularities would that still be considered useless if it was created through science? Would that still be conventional? I just find that to be a bit sketchy. Sure, when they're in their spirit forms they can't be effected because of their intangibility and such. But outside of that, when they're in their material forms, why can't they be effected?

Also, even if that was true, the battalion vampires were created using Mina's/Alucard's blood as a template, IIRC. They also perform blatantly supernatural feats, such as walking up and down the sides of walls as if gravity is non-existent. This immunity to conventional means must have a limit somewhere. That's just my opinion though.

Hans and Dandy might be able to hold up for a time before being overwhelmed by Iskander's armies since they're a natural werewolf and vampire respectively. The reload time Rip would have to go through in reloading between shots with her musket would lead her to get slaughtered quick though. The three along with the battalion, just dragging out the inevitable slaughter.

I agree that Iskander would win, but it would make for a better/fairer fight if they were to be added into the mix. It was ultimately a miss match, I guess. Still, I don't think it would be completely one-sided.

Post by Dream (7,263 posts) See mini bio Level 20
Moderator
@FalconC2: By conventional, I mean anything that effects only the physical plane of existence.  Since the physical bodies that Heroic Spirits have are artificially created through both the power of the Holy Grail and preserved through their Master's mana, their bodies are still technically on the spiritual plane of existence while they can still interact with anything on the physical plane, making them a type of semi-ghost. You can try taking them out with anything like an ordinary gun, a nuke or natural phenomena like being struck by a lightning bolt and it wouldn't harm a Heroic Spirit at all since they are still technically spirits. However if said weapon were enchanted with magical or spiritual power of sorts or a person's physical abilities were augmented by magic or supernatural forces, then it/ they can interact with the spiritual plane and be capable of inflicting harm onto a Heroic Spirit. Another way you could "kill" a Heroic Spirit would be if you somehow disrupted the flow of mana they were supplied with to maintain their physical body. This would involve either destroying the Holy Grail or having an ability with some sort of anti-magic effect that shuts down the Servant's ability to receive mana from the Grail and their Master. Killing their Master would disrupt their supply of mana to use for attacks, but the Heroic Spirit could still get it via killing and absorbing the life energy of unlucky victims.
Post by FalconC2 (349 posts) See mini bio Level 9

@Dream: How many feats do they have to go with this though? I mean, have they actually been hit by nukes and that other stuff you mentioned when in their materialized forms and tanked them, or is it just conjecture? I can understand if they quickly shift to their spirit forms to do this, but to tank that kind of power outright... not so much.

What if it they faced someone who's powers were scientific in origin, but so advanced that it was indistinguishable from magic? If, for instance, Zero or Megaman were to fight a servant; would they be unable to effect them? I mean, at the top of my head, I can remember several of their skills that just can't be considered conventional, such as Dark Hold that stops time. I doubt that can be considered conventional, even though it has robotic/scientific origins.

Post by Dartz (164 posts) See mini bio Level 6

To hurt a Servant you need to have an Spiritual Rank. This was explained by Rin. Non-human blood helps with this, which is why the likes of Kouma (he is not an spirit, but he is mostly Oni) as well as Dead Apostles are able to fight against them. So if the vampires have Alucard's blood they should be able to hurt them.

Post by FalconC2 (349 posts) See mini bio Level 9

@Dartz: That still seems like a conjecture because it can't be proven or disproven. Sure, Rin says that but it hasn't been something that has been tested. It's not like the Fate/Stay Night world has particularly advanced technology to serve as an example; the technology there is pretty much the same as in the real world. Of course that's not going to do much, with all the numerous advantages servants have; a spirit form that grants them intangibility, superhuman attributes and skills, and Noble Phantasms that can warp reality/casualty.

If they face something that is scientific but so advanced that it can hardly be considered conventional, why shouldn't they be effected? Plant abilities, from Trigun, are not magical or spiritual (alien, and biological mostly) but it allows them do things like shoot small black holes out of guns and create energy beam weapons that can make large craters/holes in the moon. I doubt that servants would be immune to that as well.

As for this fight itself, I think I can safely say Iskander wins whether the Letzte Bataillon can effect him or not.

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