Battles

@Mortein said:

" @Newdeath said:

" @Mortein said:

" @Newdeath said:

" @Mortein said:

" @Newdeath said:

" @Mortein said:

" @Newdeath said:

" @Mortein said:

" @Newdeath said:

"

Actually it is possible to calculate how heavy was piccolo, it is also posible to calculate what kind of strength would you need to trow 100kg more than few miles away. I bet you wouldnt like numbers. Indian is not just muscular man, he is super human: wait for scans "

Those feats don't prove anything because peak human athletes in the Marvel Universe performed feats like that.   ND "

They have lifted someone as big as piccolo and then trow him away, priced  through robots, trow something heavier that 100kg miles away? may I see scans. I am more Marvel fan than DBZ, but I have never seen peak human from marvel do something like that, these feats are on spider-mans level. "

Exactly they are Spider-Man level. I recall observing a discussion on ComicVine about this exactly and most users kept stating that these are Spider-Man level feats. I don't have the scans with me right now. I'm on my laptop, my scans are on my iMac.   ND "

Well then what is a problem, I have proven that during Dragon ball they were on spiderman level of strength. which means at least 10T, which means goku KKx 20 is at least 200T "

The problem is that they are Spider-Man level feats (Stated officially by Marvel) so if they are Spider-Man feats, people who can't even lift 1 ton should not be able to perform those feats regularly but they do, so the statement that names is Spider-Man feats isn't correct considering that Marvel allows people who at maximum lift 1 thousands kilograms perform them.   ND "

??? -.-" They have strength feats of spider-man or even stronger, but they are not as stron as spiderman, they are 10x weaker than he is? is this what are you traing to say? I have shown how characters much much weaker than goku without KK are 5-25 T. And I have shown how KK doubles your strenght. Which means goku before he became SSJ was able to lift more than 40T. "

Yes it is what I am trying to say. Goku is only above 40 tons as a Super Saiyan. None of those characters are even close to being 25 tons because that would mean that weaklings from Dragon Ball are on par with Goku after the Cell Saga in terms of physical strength regardless if Goku is powered down because Goku powered down was able to easily equal Uub in physical strength during their first encounter and not so many years past by however from the date of those scans all the way to after the Cell Saga, that is over 20 years. It just shows that as Goku trains it is not just his powered up state that gains more power but also his depowered state.    ND "

Everything in the show is against that scan, 
I explained you already how that scan don't mean anything, since we don't know how much powered down goku was at that point, but we do know he was powered down, and we don't know the gravity of a planet he was on, but it is very likely its gravity was bigger than the one on earth
And except that if goku is really as weak as you made him be, than Fat buu could crush goku, using nothing but his TK.
Fat lifted all the peaple in big city with his TK, and all the people wheat more than 70 000T, which means he could crush goku like a bug

"

You are also forgetting that Fat Buu is an idiot and childish, he would never think of doing an act like that. And it doesn't really matter how strong the gravity was, it was stated to be 40 tons and it is generally accepted that it was 40 tons and no more regardless of the planet's gravity because the gravity of the planet was never stated so everyone accepts it as 40 tons and no more simply because they do not know the planet's gravity. Like I said before, DBZ is filled with insane amounts of inconsistency. Also it really doesn't matter because Goku still isn't stronger than Iron Man and that is well accepted and second of all the 40 tons feat was done years after the Cell Games but not necessarily close to the Majin Saga and Goku still had many years to train and increase his strength. Our argument is useless anyway considering that the majority of the thread agrees that Iron Man wins and second of all there is no clear indication that Goku even at KKx4 is anywhere near as strong as Iron Man because Goku has never lifted 100 tons or anything near that kind of weight nor has he ever performed any strength feats that suggest otherwise, you posted scans speculating how strong DB characters are but there is no indication that you are correct about their strength levels and again you were speculating and speculating isn't a proper manner of arguing or debating, you were speculating how strong you believe they are, Tao is not 5 tons-25 tons just because he was able to break a pillar by merely poking it, Daredevil performs things like this regularly to escape from prisons and such and he isn't even stronger than an Olympic Athlete. Kid Goku catching missiles is not even a 1 ton feat because Captain America was able to catch missiles and toss them in different directions with a single arm with relative ease, judo flipping Piccolo who was at least as tall and big as Giant-Man is not even a 1 ton feat because Giant-Man has grown to much bigger sizes and only when he was at least as twice as big as Piccolo was, was he stated to be weighing at least 2 tons. Smashing through a robot is nothing because Black Panther was been able to smash through steel walls and he is stated to lift at least 800 lbs however he did so by finding the weak point of the walls. Krillin body slamming a large and obese man weighing possibly 500 lbs is not impressive at all and Tao effortlessly making as you said a "superhuman" struggle was not impressive at all because if he was superhuman than most of the competitors in the World Tournament should have been superhuman as well, the so called superhuman is possibly not even a 1 tonner, a lot of things define a superhuman e.g strength or speed etc. It is generally accepted that Goku cannot move 40 tons quite well without having to transform into a Super Saiyan because it was not suggested otherwise, if what you say was true there would have been no need for Goku to have transformed and he could have simply used the Kaioken to show off his speed and strength but he didn't as he said 40 tons would be too hard and King Kai suggested that he transform into a Super Saiyan to do so but if he didn't need to he would probably just tell Goku to use the Kaioken or power up. Again there is no clear indication that Goku even while using Kaioken at the time he met Vegeta was anywhere near 40 tons because there is no evidence suggesting otherwise and you can only speculate what you believe the kind of strength he had which couldn't have been anywhere near that of Goku after Cell's death because that would mean that a Goku from at least 10 years ago was while using the Kaioken was as strong or stronger than a powered down Goku from the future at least 10 years later as it would be absurd considering that Goku powered down was able to fight evenly against Uub who was as strong as Kid Buu and it was ten years that past that Goku was strong enough to fight Uub in his base and powered down form.   ND "

Fat buu maybe if stupid, but Super buu or kid buu are not, and they have all his powers. DBZ is not  filed with any more inconsistency than any other comic. How do you explain that Iron man sometimes gets hurt by something as weak as nuclear bomb and sometimes he can withstand a earth busting attacks. Nuclear bomb is thousands of trillions times weaker than nuclear bomb, so this is very huge  inconsistency.  Yes, goku has never lifted anything heavy, so we must speculate about his strength, as I did. Taos feat is tossing pillar heavier than 100Kg miles away, for thatyou have to be at least 5-15T Krillin was body slamming a giant. There was no need for goku to transform into SSJ1, that is why it was to easy after he transformed Indian had super human strength, I have proven that. Goku can power down as much as he wont's to, he probably was around PL 5000 when it whas hard for him to hold 40T, on a planet with unknown gravity. Goku that fought Uub probably wasn't as powered down as goku who struggled with 40T. Besides Uub is nowhere near as powerful as Buu, he only have a potential to became as powerful "

You don't have proof that Goku trying to move the 40 tons was more powered down, none of them were using auras. And Motein this argument obviously is going nowhere, I can go all night with you but lets just stick to our separate opinions and end it here. 
 
 
ND

@Mortein said:

" @Newdeath said:

" @Mortein said:

" @Newdeath said:

" @Mortein said:

" @Newdeath said:

" @Mortein said:

" @Newdeath said:

" @Mortein said:

" @Newdeath said:

" @Mortein said:

" @Newdeath said:

"

Actually it is possible to calculate how heavy was piccolo, it is also posible to calculate what kind of strength would you need to trow 100kg more than few miles away. I bet you wouldnt like numbers. Indian is not just muscular man, he is super human: wait for scans "

Those feats don't prove anything because peak human athletes in the Marvel Universe performed feats like that.   ND "

They have lifted someone as big as piccolo and then trow him away, priced  through robots, trow something heavier that 100kg miles away? may I see scans. I am more Marvel fan than DBZ, but I have never seen peak human from marvel do something like that, these feats are on spider-mans level. "

Exactly they are Spider-Man level. I recall observing a discussion on ComicVine about this exactly and most users kept stating that these are Spider-Man level feats. I don't have the scans with me right now. I'm on my laptop, my scans are on my iMac.   ND "

Well then what is a problem, I have proven that during Dragon ball they were on spiderman level of strength. which means at least 10T, which means goku KKx 20 is at least 200T "

The problem is that they are Spider-Man level feats (Stated officially by Marvel) so if they are Spider-Man feats, people who can't even lift 1 ton should not be able to perform those feats regularly but they do, so the statement that names is Spider-Man feats isn't correct considering that Marvel allows people who at maximum lift 1 thousands kilograms perform them.   ND "

??? -.-" They have strength feats of spider-man or even stronger, but they are not as stron as spiderman, they are 10x weaker than he is? is this what are you traing to say? I have shown how characters much much weaker than goku without KK are 5-25 T. And I have shown how KK doubles your strenght. Which means goku before he became SSJ was able to lift more than 40T. "

Yes it is what I am trying to say. Goku is only above 40 tons as a Super Saiyan. None of those characters are even close to being 25 tons because that would mean that weaklings from Dragon Ball are on par with Goku after the Cell Saga in terms of physical strength regardless if Goku is powered down because Goku powered down was able to easily equal Uub in physical strength during their first encounter and not so many years past by however from the date of those scans all the way to after the Cell Saga, that is over 20 years. It just shows that as Goku trains it is not just his powered up state that gains more power but also his depowered state.    ND "

Everything in the show is against that scan, 
I explained you already how that scan don't mean anything, since we don't know how much powered down goku was at that point, but we do know he was powered down, and we don't know the gravity of a planet he was on, but it is very likely its gravity was bigger than the one on earth
And except that if goku is really as weak as you made him be, than Fat buu could crush goku, using nothing but his TK.
Fat lifted all the peaple in big city with his TK, and all the people wheat more than 70 000T, which means he could crush goku like a bug

"

You are also forgetting that Fat Buu is an idiot and childish, he would never think of doing an act like that. And it doesn't really matter how strong the gravity was, it was stated to be 40 tons and it is generally accepted that it was 40 tons and no more regardless of the planet's gravity because the gravity of the planet was never stated so everyone accepts it as 40 tons and no more simply because they do not know the planet's gravity. Like I said before, DBZ is filled with insane amounts of inconsistency. Also it really doesn't matter because Goku still isn't stronger than Iron Man and that is well accepted and second of all the 40 tons feat was done years after the Cell Games but not necessarily close to the Majin Saga and Goku still had many years to train and increase his strength. Our argument is useless anyway considering that the majority of the thread agrees that Iron Man wins and second of all there is no clear indication that Goku even at KKx4 is anywhere near as strong as Iron Man because Goku has never lifted 100 tons or anything near that kind of weight nor has he ever performed any strength feats that suggest otherwise, you posted scans speculating how strong DB characters are but there is no indication that you are correct about their strength levels and again you were speculating and speculating isn't a proper manner of arguing or debating, you were speculating how strong you believe they are, Tao is not 5 tons-25 tons just because he was able to break a pillar by merely poking it, Daredevil performs things like this regularly to escape from prisons and such and he isn't even stronger than an Olympic Athlete. Kid Goku catching missiles is not even a 1 ton feat because Captain America was able to catch missiles and toss them in different directions with a single arm with relative ease, judo flipping Piccolo who was at least as tall and big as Giant-Man is not even a 1 ton feat because Giant-Man has grown to much bigger sizes and only when he was at least as twice as big as Piccolo was, was he stated to be weighing at least 2 tons. Smashing through a robot is nothing because Black Panther was been able to smash through steel walls and he is stated to lift at least 800 lbs however he did so by finding the weak point of the walls. Krillin body slamming a large and obese man weighing possibly 500 lbs is not impressive at all and Tao effortlessly making as you said a "superhuman" struggle was not impressive at all because if he was superhuman than most of the competitors in the World Tournament should have been superhuman as well, the so called superhuman is possibly not even a 1 tonner, a lot of things define a superhuman e.g strength or speed etc. It is generally accepted that Goku cannot move 40 tons quite well without having to transform into a Super Saiyan because it was not suggested otherwise, if what you say was true there would have been no need for Goku to have transformed and he could have simply used the Kaioken to show off his speed and strength but he didn't as he said 40 tons would be too hard and King Kai suggested that he transform into a Super Saiyan to do so but if he didn't need to he would probably just tell Goku to use the Kaioken or power up. Again there is no clear indication that Goku even while using Kaioken at the time he met Vegeta was anywhere near 40 tons because there is no evidence suggesting otherwise and you can only speculate what you believe the kind of strength he had which couldn't have been anywhere near that of Goku after Cell's death because that would mean that a Goku from at least 10 years ago was while using the Kaioken was as strong or stronger than a powered down Goku from the future at least 10 years later as it would be absurd considering that Goku powered down was able to fight evenly against Uub who was as strong as Kid Buu and it was ten years that past that Goku was strong enough to fight Uub in his base and powered down form.   ND "

Fat buu maybe if stupid, but Super buu or kid buu are not, and they have all his powers. DBZ is not  filed with any more inconsistency than any other comic. How do you explain that Iron man sometimes gets hurt by something as weak as nuclear bomb and sometimes he can withstand a earth busting attacks. Nuclear bomb is thousands of trillions times weaker than nuclear bomb, so this is very huge  inconsistency.  Yes, goku has never lifted anything heavy, so we must speculate about his strength, as I did. Taos feat is tossing pillar heavier than 100Kg miles away, for thatyou have to be at least 5-15T Krillin was body slamming a giant. There was no need for goku to transform into SSJ1, that is why it was to easy after he transformed Indian had super human strength, I have proven that. Goku can power down as much as he wont's to, he probably was around PL 5000 when it whas hard for him to hold 40T, on a planet with unknown gravity. Goku that fought Uub probably wasn't as powered down as goku who struggled with 40T. Besides Uub is nowhere near as powerful as Buu, he only have a potential to became as powerful "

You don't have proof that Goku trying to move the 40 tons was more powered down, none of them were using auras. And Motein this argument obviously is going nowhere, I can go all night with you but lets just stick to our separate opinions and end it here.   ND "

haha, you are giving up :P I said PROBABLY was more powered down, since that is how it looks like Problem of most of you is that you are unable to look at big picture. "

I'm not giving up at all. I never give up, I just noticed that it is impossible to convince you regardless of how many facts I bring. Besides most of the users on the thread agree that Iron Man wins so this argument is useless. Also if Iron Man observes Goku's abilities for a while he will discover his weaknesses and he has several gadgets in his arsenal to assist him. I am not here to engage in an endless debate with you, it doesn't matter how many facts, how many feats I bring up you simply cannot be convinced. I am simply suggesting that none of us going to give up regardless of which one of us is right which is why I am suggesting that we leave with our separate opinions.  
 
 
ND

@Mortein said:

" @Newdeath said:

" @Mortein said:

" @Newdeath said:

" @Mortein said:

" @Newdeath said:

" @Mortein said:

" @Newdeath said:

" @Mortein said:

" @Newdeath said:

" @Mortein said:

" @Newdeath said:

" @Mortein said:

" @Newdeath said:

"

Actually it is possible to calculate how heavy was piccolo, it is also posible to calculate what kind of strength would you need to trow 100kg more than few miles away. I bet you wouldnt like numbers. Indian is not just muscular man, he is super human: wait for scans "

Those feats don't prove anything because peak human athletes in the Marvel Universe performed feats like that.   ND "

They have lifted someone as big as piccolo and then trow him away, priced  through robots, trow something heavier that 100kg miles away? may I see scans. I am more Marvel fan than DBZ, but I have never seen peak human from marvel do something like that, these feats are on spider-mans level. "

Exactly they are Spider-Man level. I recall observing a discussion on ComicVine about this exactly and most users kept stating that these are Spider-Man level feats. I don't have the scans with me right now. I'm on my laptop, my scans are on my iMac.   ND "

Well then what is a problem, I have proven that during Dragon ball they were on spiderman level of strength. which means at least 10T, which means goku KKx 20 is at least 200T "

The problem is that they are Spider-Man level feats (Stated officially by Marvel) so if they are Spider-Man feats, people who can't even lift 1 ton should not be able to perform those feats regularly but they do, so the statement that names is Spider-Man feats isn't correct considering that Marvel allows people who at maximum lift 1 thousands kilograms perform them.   ND "

??? -.-" They have strength feats of spider-man or even stronger, but they are not as stron as spiderman, they are 10x weaker than he is? is this what are you traing to say? I have shown how characters much much weaker than goku without KK are 5-25 T. And I have shown how KK doubles your strenght. Which means goku before he became SSJ was able to lift more than 40T. "

Yes it is what I am trying to say. Goku is only above 40 tons as a Super Saiyan. None of those characters are even close to being 25 tons because that would mean that weaklings from Dragon Ball are on par with Goku after the Cell Saga in terms of physical strength regardless if Goku is powered down because Goku powered down was able to easily equal Uub in physical strength during their first encounter and not so many years past by however from the date of those scans all the way to after the Cell Saga, that is over 20 years. It just shows that as Goku trains it is not just his powered up state that gains more power but also his depowered state.    ND "

Everything in the show is against that scan, 
I explained you already how that scan don't mean anything, since we don't know how much powered down goku was at that point, but we do know he was powered down, and we don't know the gravity of a planet he was on, but it is very likely its gravity was bigger than the one on earth
And except that if goku is really as weak as you made him be, than Fat buu could crush goku, using nothing but his TK.
Fat lifted all the peaple in big city with his TK, and all the people wheat more than 70 000T, which means he could crush goku like a bug

"

You are also forgetting that Fat Buu is an idiot and childish, he would never think of doing an act like that. And it doesn't really matter how strong the gravity was, it was stated to be 40 tons and it is generally accepted that it was 40 tons and no more regardless of the planet's gravity because the gravity of the planet was never stated so everyone accepts it as 40 tons and no more simply because they do not know the planet's gravity. Like I said before, DBZ is filled with insane amounts of inconsistency. Also it really doesn't matter because Goku still isn't stronger than Iron Man and that is well accepted and second of all the 40 tons feat was done years after the Cell Games but not necessarily close to the Majin Saga and Goku still had many years to train and increase his strength. Our argument is useless anyway considering that the majority of the thread agrees that Iron Man wins and second of all there is no clear indication that Goku even at KKx4 is anywhere near as strong as Iron Man because Goku has never lifted 100 tons or anything near that kind of weight nor has he ever performed any strength feats that suggest otherwise, you posted scans speculating how strong DB characters are but there is no indication that you are correct about their strength levels and again you were speculating and speculating isn't a proper manner of arguing or debating, you were speculating how strong you believe they are, Tao is not 5 tons-25 tons just because he was able to break a pillar by merely poking it, Daredevil performs things like this regularly to escape from prisons and such and he isn't even stronger than an Olympic Athlete. Kid Goku catching missiles is not even a 1 ton feat because Captain America was able to catch missiles and toss them in different directions with a single arm with relative ease, judo flipping Piccolo who was at least as tall and big as Giant-Man is not even a 1 ton feat because Giant-Man has grown to much bigger sizes and only when he was at least as twice as big as Piccolo was, was he stated to be weighing at least 2 tons. Smashing through a robot is nothing because Black Panther was been able to smash through steel walls and he is stated to lift at least 800 lbs however he did so by finding the weak point of the walls. Krillin body slamming a large and obese man weighing possibly 500 lbs is not impressive at all and Tao effortlessly making as you said a "superhuman" struggle was not impressive at all because if he was superhuman than most of the competitors in the World Tournament should have been superhuman as well, the so called superhuman is possibly not even a 1 tonner, a lot of things define a superhuman e.g strength or speed etc. It is generally accepted that Goku cannot move 40 tons quite well without having to transform into a Super Saiyan because it was not suggested otherwise, if what you say was true there would have been no need for Goku to have transformed and he could have simply used the Kaioken to show off his speed and strength but he didn't as he said 40 tons would be too hard and King Kai suggested that he transform into a Super Saiyan to do so but if he didn't need to he would probably just tell Goku to use the Kaioken or power up. Again there is no clear indication that Goku even while using Kaioken at the time he met Vegeta was anywhere near 40 tons because there is no evidence suggesting otherwise and you can only speculate what you believe the kind of strength he had which couldn't have been anywhere near that of Goku after Cell's death because that would mean that a Goku from at least 10 years ago was while using the Kaioken was as strong or stronger than a powered down Goku from the future at least 10 years later as it would be absurd considering that Goku powered down was able to fight evenly against Uub who was as strong as Kid Buu and it was ten years that past that Goku was strong enough to fight Uub in his base and powered down form.   ND "

Fat buu maybe if stupid, but Super buu or kid buu are not, and they have all his powers. DBZ is not  filed with any more inconsistency than any other comic. How do you explain that Iron man sometimes gets hurt by something as weak as nuclear bomb and sometimes he can withstand a earth busting attacks. Nuclear bomb is thousands of trillions times weaker than nuclear bomb, so this is very huge  inconsistency.  Yes, goku has never lifted anything heavy, so we must speculate about his strength, as I did. Taos feat is tossing pillar heavier than 100Kg miles away, for thatyou have to be at least 5-15T Krillin was body slamming a giant. There was no need for goku to transform into SSJ1, that is why it was to easy after he transformed Indian had super human strength, I have proven that. Goku can power down as much as he wont's to, he probably was around PL 5000 when it whas hard for him to hold 40T, on a planet with unknown gravity. Goku that fought Uub probably wasn't as powered down as goku who struggled with 40T. Besides Uub is nowhere near as powerful as Buu, he only have a potential to became as powerful "

You don't have proof that Goku trying to move the 40 tons was more powered down, none of them were using auras. And Motein this argument obviously is going nowhere, I can go all night with you but lets just stick to our separate opinions and end it here.   ND "

haha, you are giving up :P I said PROBABLY was more powered down, since that is how it looks like Problem of most of you is that you are unable to look at big picture. "

I'm not giving up at all. I never give up, I just noticed that it is impossible to convince you regardless of how many facts I bring. Besides most of the users on the thread agree that Iron Man wins so this argument is useless. Also if Iron Man observes Goku's abilities for a while he will discover his weaknesses and he has several gadgets in his arsenal to assist him. I am not here to engage in an endless debate with you, it doesn't matter how many facts, how many feats I bring up you simply cannot be convinced. I am simply suggesting that none of us going to give up regardless of which one of us is right which is why I am suggesting that we leave with our separate opinions.    ND "

Only thing you have said about gokus strength was he is not stronger than 40 T, and you based your opinion on only one scan in which he was powered down and was on a planet with unknown gravity. We dont know how much powered down he was, nor do we know the gravity of a planet, so basically your opinion is based on nothing. I have showed you feats that proves how DB character were around 10T. I have also posted a scan which proves how Goku KKx20 cant be weaker than 200T, since he is much stronger than all of them even without KK.  Again wich proof have you bring in here? "

Again you were speculating not bringing any facts at all. Speculation, you were theorizing whether you aware of it or not. It really didn't matter how powered down he was because he cannot power down himself to become weaker than his natural limit, he has never shown that ability. I brought proof by comparing their strength, using other characters as examples etc. Like I said before, we can go all night and we will never stop this debate because it doesn't matter what I say it won't change your mind. The unknown gravity concept is not necessary and since people do not know the intensity of the gravity it is generally accepted that it was 40 tons in a gravitational field no different than that of the Earth which is why I based my opinion on it and yes I only based it on one feat because it is the only feat in the entire Dragon Ball Z series of strength that has actually been mentioned how much weight is being used and the rest of the feats one can only speculate how much they are lifting or moving or supporting. Like I said before, you wish to continue in an eternal debate when nearly everyone else on the thread agrees with what I say? Which is why I say we should simply leave it at that and stick to our own opinions on who wins this battle and again you didn't listen to me and continued the argument. Final time though, lets leave it at that and remain with our own respective opinions and if we do not we are only prolonging what seems to be an eternal debate. 
 
 
ND

@Newdeath: Sorry for the late lock XD
This thread is dead, locked and burning in hell