Hashirama Senju vs Minato Namikaze

Topic started by nishi99 on May 26, 2012. Last post by All_StarSupes 2 years, 1 month ago.
Post by GIRUGAMESH (2,136 posts) See mini bio Level 9

@othus12: Non-canon material is non-canon.

@AweSam: How?

@FaceTheGlass: Ok, so plants are now uber? I guess space-time ninjutsu, genius intellect and advanced sealing techniques are worthless in the face of plants. Get real, the only thing plants have ever been uber in was the last format of yugioh.

@All_StarSupes: Exactly right, but why go for a draw given what we saw of Edo Hashirama? Minato should take this.

Post by All_StarSupes (767 posts) See mini bio Level 10

Edo Hashirama didn't show his full potential when fighting the 3rd, as shown by recent chapters and what Madara has shown with his cells.

Post by AweSam (13 posts) See mini bio Level 7

@GIRUGAMESH: The only thing Minato has on Hashirama is his speed. If careful, Hashirama could simply make precautions for Minato's space/time ninjutsu. Then there's strategy. Minato's a clever guy and all, but his battle strategy is way too flawed. When he fought Tobi, he went in for a direct attack with his kunai, resulting in him getting caught in Tobi's chains. If you watch his fights, you can see him rendering himself defenseless countless times. Telling by how Madara used the woodstyle, Hashirama should be at least five times more adept at it. One mistake and Minato's dead. I know I'm going to get a lot of hate from the Minato fanboys/girls, but he really hasn't shown anything to prove he's anywhere near Hashirama's level.

Post by sceonn (757 posts) See mini bio Level 9

@othus12 said:

@sceonn: no matter. the 4th sealing habilities are better than those of the first yet he couldnt seal kurama without dying. its a fact that he is weaker than hashirama. cmon hashirama deflected the bijuu dama while minato had to teleport. this aslso proves hashirama has more strenght and durability

True, the First is probably the strongest as he is Senju thus having inherited the Sage's body. But I'm still with Minato till I see Hashirama's feats. Trowing kunai or growing plants, it's obvious who'll make the fastest kill.

Post by GIRUGAMESH (2,136 posts) See mini bio Level 9

@All_StarSupes: I feel as though I have responded to this same argument a million times. I know that the edo Hashirama that Hiruzen fought was not as strong as the real one, but you'd be wrong to say that there was a huge gap between them. Edo does not make them any weaker, it only robs them of their will, intellect and knowledge. It's fine to say that Hashirama>Oro's edo Hashirama, but don't expect me to believe that the real one would be so much stronger that he'd be beyond Minato.

@AweSam: You lost your credibility as soon as you said that Minato's strategy would be his downfall. He is easily one of the most intelligent characters in the series. If Tobi ever caught him off guard, it was only because he possesses the most hax/unusual abilities in the whole series, abilities Minato was able to figure out and counter despite it being his first time seeing them. Hashirama can be as careful as he wants, everything shown would suggest that Minato could outsmart him and outmanoeuvre him.

"Five times more adept"? Pulling numbers out of nowhere isn't helping.

"One mistake and Minato's dead". How so? Hashirama isn't Itachi; his attacks work on a large scale rather than specialising in their deadliness. If caught by Hashirama's wood or facing an onslaught of branches he could simply teleport away, none of Hashi's attacks are killing him before Minato could react.

I am not a Minato fanboy, but there has been no hard evidence to show that Hashirama wins this. His fight with Kurama/Madara is inconclusive; we never saw it and therefore don't know the conditions by which he won. He could have had the power of multiple bijuu with him, he could have taken control of Kurama or freed him during the fight, etc. The only conclusive thing we can go on at the moment is the edo fight, which really doesn't say much for Hashirama's victory here.

Post by All_StarSupes (767 posts) See mini bio Level 10

I didn't say edo Hashirama was weaker or stronger, just simply that he didn't show his full potential. This is proven as recent chapters have revealed that he had some powerful moves that weren't shown in that fight. Also the same can be said of Minato, the manga has only really shown his speed feats. He clearly became Hokage based on more than just speed. That's why I said it has to be a draw as we have no idea what the two are fully capable of.

Post by GIRUGAMESH (2,136 posts) See mini bio Level 9

@All_StarSupes: I see where you're coming from, but based on actual evidence and the things we have seen in the manga, Minato has enough to take this, it would only be speculating to think that Hashirama has any more moves in his arsenal other than what's been shown. Maybe more will be revealed later on (bad writing on Kishi's part if that happens), but until then Hashirama hasn't shown enough to win this.

Post by AweSam (13 posts) See mini bio Level 7

@GIRUGAMESH said:

@All_StarSupes: I feel as though I have responded to this same argument a million times. I know that the edo Hashirama that Hiruzen fought was not as strong as the real one, but you'd be wrong to say that there was a huge gap between them. Edo does not make them any weaker, it only robs them of their will, intellect and knowledge. It's fine to say that Hashirama>Oro's edo Hashirama, but don't expect me to believe that the real one would be so much stronger that he'd be beyond Minato.

@AweSam: You lost your credibility as soon as you said that Minato's strategy would be his downfall. He is easily one of the most intelligent characters in the series. If Tobi ever caught him off guard, it was only because he possesses the most hax/unusual abilities in the whole series, abilities Minato was able to figure out and counter despite it being his first time seeing them. Hashirama can be as careful as he wants, everything shown would suggest that Minato could outsmart him and outmanoeuvre him.

"Five times more adept"? Pulling numbers out of nowhere isn't helping.

"One mistake and Minato's dead". How so? Hashirama isn't Itachi; his attacks work on a large scale rather than specialising in their deadliness. If caught by Hashirama's wood or facing an onslaught of branches he could simply teleport away, none of Hashi's attacks are killing him before Minato could react.

I am not a Minato fanboy, but there has been no hard evidence to show that Hashirama wins this. His fight with Kurama/Madara is inconclusive; we never saw it and therefore don't know the conditions by which he won. He could have had the power of multiple bijuu with him, he could have taken control of Kurama or freed him during the fight, etc. The only conclusive thing we can go on at the moment is the edo fight, which really doesn't say much for Hashirama's victory here.

Yeah, you're going by nothing. Minato hasn't shown anything at all to prove he's above Kakashi's level. Please post some pictures and prove me wrong.

Post by sceonn (757 posts) See mini bio Level 9

@AweSam said:

Yeah, you're going by nothing. Minato hasn't shown anything at all to prove he's above Kakashi's level. Please post some pictures and prove me wrong.

I hope you know that Minato trained Kakashi....

Post by sickVisionz (4,224 posts) See mini bio Level 24
Moderator

Tough call considering that we've never actually seen the 1st fight and all of his feats are second hand accounts or rumors passed down over multiple generations and likely embellished or flat out false.

His Edo suggests that he's a really good fighter, approaching high level Akatsuki like Pain's regular body (I forget the name, but the one that's his friend's corpse). His legend and rumor suggests that he's some god level invincible warrior that no ninja ever born could even hope to hold a candle to. I need to see him in action to call this one either way.

@FaceTheGlass said:

All Hashirama would have to do is trap Minato and his arms so that he could not use jutsu and couldn't throw kunai, and bam!

That's a very solid gameplan but it's very similar to the Aesop able about mice belling a cat so that they can know when it's coming. Belling the cat (trapping Minato) would definitely work, but what mouse has the strength skill go toe-to-toe with a cat and actually wrap the bell on it? Hashirama's tree jutsu haven't been shown or rumored at being anywhere near fast enough to trap Minato. He doesn't even wave signs to teleport, he just does it in a split second and he knows how to use it in the middle of combat and high stress situations.

@AweSam said:

Minato hasn't shown anything at all to prove he's above Kakashi's level.

Say whaaaaaat?!?!?

Post by GIRUGAMESH (2,136 posts) See mini bio Level 9

@AweSam: I see now that you must be biased towards Minato with comments like that.

Let me ask you the following:

Has Kakashi ever dodged and outmanoeuvred the Raikage?

Has Kakashi ever landed a hit on Tobi?

Has Kakashi ever shown sealing jutsu on a level high enough to seal the Kyuubi?

Has Kakashi ever been shown to be capable of defeating armies in a matter of seconds?

Putting Kakashi on the same level as Minato (his teacher, in case you'd forgotten) is a little silly. The fact that Jiraiya considered him to be the greatest ninja he ever knew only adds to this.

@sickVisionz: Always nice to have a reminder that there are still people with sense on these forums :)

Post by SpeedForceSpider (4,803 posts) See mini bio Level 15

@AweSam said:

Yeah, you're going by nothing. Minato hasn't shown anything at all to prove he's above Kakashi's level. Please post some pictures and prove me wrong.

LOL Minato would destroy Kakashi in a fight not funny man.

Post by AweSam (13 posts) See mini bio Level 7

@GIRUGAMESH: @SpeedForceSpider: What you guys neglect to understand is, Minato hasn't shown anything at all. No, Kakashi hasn't landed a blow on Tobi, but they never had a serious fight with each other. You guys are basing your opinions off of one or two fights. The only thing Minato has on Kakashi is his space/time ninjutsu. I'm not saying Minato's weak, or Kakashi can beat him, I'm just stating that Minato hasn't shown anything above Kakashi's level. Which he actually hasn't. You have your opinions, I have mine, blah blah blah. Can't have a serious debate with fanboys.

Post by TheNobody (289 posts) See mini bio Level 7
Are you serious? Did you just say Kakashi is above Minato? Minato has warped a Bijuu Ball, tagged Tobi, and sealed Kurama! Along with outmaneuvering the Raikage who's one of the fastest characters in Naruto. And Minato's reaction is above anyone in Naruto, he has great reflexes to keep up with someone like Tobi (Harishama shouldn't be able to touch him at all considering his attacks are way to front). He manage to teleport away from Tobi's sharingan at the last second, that's enough to say he could easily dodge every attack Harishama puts out for him. And Minato is a clever and witty guy, perhaps the most witty character ever to be shown in the series. If anything Harishama is featless, Edo Harishama hasn't shown anything to keep up with the likes of Minato (Lol he and the second couldn't even beat an old near death Hiruzen, even if they weren't in their right mindset it still shows a lot). I mean all Minato has to do is scatter his tags, seals, kunais, etc around and it's over. His jutsu are far above those of Harishama (bunch of trees aren't going to stop someone from teleporting).
Post by SpeedForceSpider (4,803 posts) See mini bio Level 15

@AweSam: Your a flippin' moron if you think I'm a fanboy because I told the truth. So blah blah blah run that BS somewhere else.

Post by GIRUGAMESH (2,136 posts) See mini bio Level 9

@AweSam: Haters gonna hate. Hopefully you can see sense one day. Now pack up your crazy, and get out the thread.

Post by othus12 (6,210 posts) See mini bio Level 12

@TheNobody: madara is now taking on the 5 kage including the "super fast" raikage if you really think speed is enough to beat hashirama then you are wrong. the truth is minato had trouble against a weak madara. while the first defeated madara in his prime.

Post by GIRUGAMESH (2,136 posts) See mini bio Level 9

@othus12: ...you mean Tobi, right? Minato never fought Madara.

And Minato's speed>Raikage's speed. This is unquestionable. And the current Madara would obliterate Hashirama. Your statements are meaningless I'm afraid.

Minato wins with difficulty.

Post by othus12 (6,210 posts) See mini bio Level 12

@GIRUGAMESH:this is tobi stating that he fought hashirama, and as we know he also fought against minato, but look what hes saying about himself in contrast to his prime form. a powerless madara caused minato huge trouble while a full powered madara was defeated by hashirama.

Post by GIRUGAMESH (2,136 posts) See mini bio Level 9

@othus12: You still aren't getting it, Tobi is not Madara, I can't really make it any clearer. Tobi never fought Hashirama, he was only ever posing as Madara. Your scan, like your argument, is void.

Mandatory Network

Submissions can take several hours to be approved.

Save ChangesCancel