Hashirama and Madara vs Admirals

Topic started by GIRUGAMESH on April 7, 2013. Last post by One_Piece_God 3 months, 1 week ago.
Post by TheNeutralOne (1,016 posts) See mini bio Level 10

@5th:

Genjutsu is the manipulation of the chakra network to distort the senses. A chakra network none of the admirals have and kizaru could blitz them before they even try to. They also wouldn't be able to beat them with intangibility on and genjutsu on because without haki they would have no way of hitting them and actually killing them lol.

Post by 5th (1,376 posts) See mini bio Level 10

@TheNeutralOne: But if we were to equalize both verses, Genjutsu should be capable of stopping the Admirals in their tracks. And from what I know, Kizaru is very arrogant... He allowed himself to get shot and torn to shreds during numerous accounts in the 7 Supernova arc... And his combat speed isn't light speed, only his travelling and attack speed... If he could truly punch or kick at the speed of light, he'd be capable of throwing a million kicks in like a second..

Post by SpeedForceSpider (5,084 posts) See mini bio Level 15
It's pretty silly to assume genjutsu won't work here. In the battle forums we have to have a neutral ground.
Post by One_Piece_God (569 posts) See mini bio Level 8

@SpeedForceSpider said:

@One_Piece_God said:

I believe there is a lot of Naruto wanking going on here. I agree with some of the arguments brought up in this battle. Yes Madara/Karuma & Hashirama are strong but against all 3 admirals is a joke they will not defeat all 3 maybe 2 against 2 they could win.

How is that when you are wanking One Piece?

If I was wanking I would say the don't stand a chance against 2 admirals, I am saying all 3 is too much for them.

@5th said:

@One_Piece_God: Are you serious? What wanking is going on? Madara can spam combined Bijuu Damas that could destroy islands in a single blow.

I've never witnessed this in Naruto. You need to be more specific when you 'island' as they vary in size.

@TheNeutralOne said:

@GIRUGAMESH:

If intangibility was on it would be unfair. Characters in one piece don't even need it off to face the admirals yet the duo needs buffs while they get nerfed. That speaks volumes of what should happen here. Also kizaru did not use his passive logia effect. He simple seperated himself and waited for the explosion to end before putting himself back together. That isn't part of his intangibility that is just good battle strategy lol. But yes with that strategy he avoided that island buster.

I still see the admirals taking this. Their skills are really flexible to the situation and with the surprise factor on kizaru's side I don't see hashirama or madara dodging light speed attacks.

@5th said:

@TheNeutralOne: And if Genjutsu was on it would be unfair as all Madara or Hashirama has to do is put the Admirals under simple Genjutsu and destroy them

Good points however if verse equalization was on & knowledge was provided I say it again 3 admirals is too much for them.

Post by GIRUGAMESH (2,237 posts) See mini bio Level 10

@TheNeutralOne: ...no, it really doesn't speak volumes. That's like saying that OP characters are well below Bleach characters because they need reiatsu crush/spirit intangibility to be off in order to have a fair fight. That's a pretty silly statement.

Moreover I'm not as convinced as you are that a single hit from Kizaru will result in a dead Madara/Hashirama. It is very common for Madara to resort to Susano almost immediately as well, and Hashirama's not going to wait there doing squat. Kizaru has never shown to be serious, he's naturally easygoing from what we've seen so far. An immediate blitz is unlikely IMO.

Not saying who would win, but I don't the fight being over as quickly as that.

Post by TheNeutralOne (1,016 posts) See mini bio Level 10

@GIRUGAMESH:

Actually all kizaru can do is blitz lol. His casual fighting against appo and drake was the reference I gave. He was not taking them as serious as say he was taking zephyr in the new movie. Because in that he was teleporting for almost all of his movements and playing it safe. And madara and hashirama without their susano'o or statue couldn't tank anything above small building level. They are still human after all. Kizaru has shown to use his light speed against lesser opponents as a first resort mind you due to marine hq orders to wipe out. I don't see why he would do it here. And I am not saying that the susano'o is useless here because like I previously stated in a drawn out match I could see hashirama and madara taking it since they will have already seen the fact that he is light speed and they will always keep up their guards from then on. But with the surprise factor of no one in naruto ever moving that fast EVER he will appear behind them and kill them before they can react.

I'll give an example. If in a soccer game I am the best goalie alive in my league and I am the fastest and am use to everyone kicking to the left, will it not surprise me the first time when someone kicks to the right and is faster than me? In soccer I could lose a goal and come back with the knowledge that I need to put out my best and be cautious because this dude is doing thing I haven't even seen before. However, in a battle where the other guy can destroy me in one hit or lazer me through the chest with this same element of surprise. I don't get a second chance unless I get really lucky and he misses or something. Which is fairly unlikely.

Post by GIRUGAMESH (2,237 posts) See mini bio Level 10

@TheNeutralOne: I understand the threat of Kizaru's lightspeed kick, but even without defences I doubt that they would go down that easily. Madara guarded against a punch from Raikage without any damage (a punch that crushed through stone) and Orochimaru took multiple hits from Tsunade in a weakened state and still came out laughing. Calling Naruto characters 'human' has always seemed hilarious to me, given their feats. Take round 2 into account as well, where Hashi begins in sage mode and Madara begins with kurama. Hashi's durability would be far greater because of sage mode (Naruto took a fall from at least 100 metres and didn't feel a thing, Hashi's will only be stronger).

Even in round 1, it's not a given that Kizaru blitzes from the beginning. If I recall correctly in his fight against the supernovas, he let one of them talk crap for ages before he actually decided to do anything. I know he could blitz them off the bat, but whether or not he's going to isn't guarenteed, though I could accept that this tactic means the admirals could definitely take it in some cases.

Post by othus12 (7,958 posts) See mini bio Level 13

sorry but neither hashirama nor madara have the power to kill the kages. even ten tails is still citybuster and kizaru tanked a blast ranked at island level...that's 2 ranks above so sorry they are not harming him anytime soon and kizaru H2H lightspeed kick would one shot them

Post by GIRUGAMESH (2,237 posts) See mini bio Level 10

@othus12 said:

sorry but neither hashirama nor madara have the power to kill the kages. even ten tails is still citybuster and kizaru tanked a blast ranked at island level...that's 2 ranks above so sorry they are not harming him anytime soon and kizaru H2H lightspeed kick would one shot them

I certainly didn't expect this from you, Othus. "Kages"? You mean admirals, right?

And of course they have the power to take down admirals. Madara alone has the capability to spam multi-mountain busters, with a few quick blasts he could decimate an island, and Hashirama's best is slightly above even that. Go back and read what has already been said and get back to us, I won't repeat myself again.

Post by othus12 (7,958 posts) See mini bio Level 13

@GIRUGAMESH: OMG lol i think i was a little drunk when i posted this i actually had a couple of shots but lol.

Post by TheNeutralOne (1,016 posts) See mini bio Level 10

@GIRUGAMESH: You make a good point but here is the flaw. Kizaru will always have his light speed advantage as long as he doesn't show it to them before hand. In the fight with the supernovas he let appo do whatever he wanted because he knew he could 1 shot him. His first attack against appo was moving at light speed btw and his second attack directed toward drake was the very same.

Also the attack taken from the raikage was from edo madara. Who knows what happened to his insides from that punch? Edo madara was shown to be careless with his ability not to die a great deal of times so that argument is not really valid. Plus you are talking about stone when kizaru kicked a dude and caused an entire building to collapse and that was casually then he proceeded to do it again as casual as ever. And if they don't die from the kick his lazer through their bodies will surely do the trick. Also doesn't hashirama stand above the statue? It is not like the statue's durability is his. Kizaru can simply get to the top and kill him. All of this commotion caused by kizaru alone while there are still two admirals capable of freezing them to death and burning them to death.

Also i consulted with quite a few people about akainu and the lava's affect on hashirama's wood( pause) and all of them found it ridiculous that for some reason he wouldn't be able to melt it. I've taken into consideration the tail beast bomb but here is where my analysis of it comes in. The tailed beast bomb is basically an explosion and there is a large difference between blowing something up and melting something. Melting something is a hell of a lot easier than to blow it up. If I could see one instance where hashirama's wood showed invulnerability to fire or ice then I will leave this argument alone. But until then I can't just let the fact that he can still be frozen or burned disappear just because.

Post by PrinceAragorn1 (157 posts) See mini bio Level 4

@TheNeutralOne: Not sure why intangibility would be unfair. The logia aren't exactly intangible, they exist in elemental forms, right, like croco/aokiji still scatters after getting hit and all.. unlike one piece, other animes have elemental attacks, so they could just counter the elemental form by other elements, like they could drop a huge water tech on ace.. or akainu, drop a mountain on aokiji/kizaru and so on.

Post by TheNeutralOne (1,016 posts) See mini bio Level 10

@PrinceAragorn1: That is a good point if either of them had proficient use of water jutsu or a blackhole. Idk how they would stop akainu because he can just freeze everything .

Post by PrinceAragorn1 (157 posts) See mini bio Level 4

@TheNeutralOne: Doesn't wood element = earth + water? And freezing the mountain isn't really going to help him come out, is it?

Post by GIRUGAMESH (2,237 posts) See mini bio Level 10

@TheNeutralOne said:

@GIRUGAMESH: You make a good point but here is the flaw. Kizaru will always have his light speed advantage as long as he doesn't show it to them before hand. In the fight with the supernovas he let appo do whatever he wanted because he knew he could 1 shot him. His first attack against appo was moving at light speed btw and his second attack directed toward drake was the very same.

Also the attack taken from the raikage was from edo madara. Who knows what happened to his insides from that punch? Edo madara was shown to be careless with his ability not to die a great deal of times so that argument is not really valid. Plus you are talking about stone when kizaru kicked a dude and caused an entire building to collapse and that was casually then he proceeded to do it again as casual as ever. And if they don't die from the kick his lazer through their bodies will surely do the trick. Also doesn't hashirama stand above the statue? It is not like the statue's durability is his. Kizaru can simply get to the top and kill him. All of this commotion caused by kizaru alone while there are still two admirals capable of freezing them to death and burning them to death.

Also i consulted with quite a few people about akainu and the lava's affect on hashirama's wood( pause) and all of them found it ridiculous that for some reason he wouldn't be able to melt it. I've taken into consideration the tail beast bomb but here is where my analysis of it comes in. The tailed beast bomb is basically an explosion and there is a large difference between blowing something up and melting something. Melting something is a hell of a lot easier than to blow it up. If I could see one instance where hashirama's wood showed invulnerability to fire or ice then I will leave this argument alone. But until then I can't just let the fact that he can still be frozen or burned disappear just because.

Ah, but that won't matter too much when Madara has pulled out his perfect susano and Hashirama is using uber wood defences, and that was my point; Kizaru would need to launch an attack immediately to maximise his speed advantage. Plus, in round 2, Hashirama starts off in sage mode, and as I stated earlier, his resistance to damage will be far greater.

No serious damage was shown to Edo Madara from that punch, he seemed to tank it just fine; suggesting that his regular form couldn't have done the same is just speculation. And to be fair, it wasn't exactly a pebble that the Raikage crushed:

Note the damage caused by the Raikage's punch. I'm not saying it's as devastating as a kick from Kizaru, but they wouldn't be worlds apart.

As for the lasers, I agree, and if he lands a direct hit then neither of them are surviving. But I can't picture them effortlessly cutting through the ninjas' best, and I doubt that Aikoji/Akainu could stop them that easily either. It's not simply a case of "fire/magma burns wood, therefore wood automatically loses". I have yet to see Akainu burn through anything big enough to make a mountain look small, and somehow I doubt Akoji could insta-freeze something of that strength/size as well without any difficulty. I have no doubt that they could, but it would need a fair bit of effort from both of them.

I could see the admirals pulling out a win for round 1 (until Madara shows more rinnegan feats), but I don't see Hashi/Madara losing round 2.

Post by TheNeutralOne (1,016 posts) See mini bio Level 10

@GIRUGAMESH:

I never said that they were worlds apart in terms of strength. I just believe that admirals are far more flexible with their abilities which gives them the edge. And no I doubt akainu could instantly melt the sage mode statue that would be retarded. But if he launched all of his fists in the air the lava would hit it and cause it to melt gradually. Which serves as the basis for a distraction. Most of hashirama's would element jutsu's not on scale with that monster wood statue would be fodder for akainu to melt. Also aokiji was shown to freeze a sea king and all the water behind it in an instant. And in the war he was shown to freeze the gigantic waterfalls that towered over marineford in seconds(at max 4 or 5). And I am talking about both of them at the same time. If you read one of my earlier posts I only put aokiji and akainu at distractions as best. They lack the speed needed to get close to hashirama and madara which leaves them open to attacks.

Even in round 2 kizaru moves faster than madara or hashirama can react. Hashirama's wood defenses are amazing but what good is my ability to block if my opponent moves faster than I can think about it? Kizaru remains the deciding factor to me. I can agree to disagree but I refuse to believe someone who is faster than another person and can 1hit them will lose. What is to stop him from moving behind them and firing two lazers? He has two hands. And on top of that he has been shown to fire a barrage of lazers but I doubt it is necessary here. Without kizaru I do believe this match would be in favour of the duo 100% though~

Post by GIRUGAMESH (2,237 posts) See mini bio Level 10

@TheNeutralOne: Ah I see, fair play then, that's an understandable stance.

The only problems that I see with the 1-shot laser strategy is Susano and Hashirama's best wood defences. I know he couldn't react to some of Kizaru's attacks, but it could be hard for him to pull off a point-blank laser shot with the chaos that will be caused by the battle and the uber techniques both ninjas will be spamming. Hell, it's a possibility though.

I'd like to revisit this fight when we see Kizaru get serious, or when somebody actually gives him trouble in OP.

Post by Dyep (372 posts) See mini bio Level 10

3 admirals all the way!

Post by cosmicdude (472 posts) See mini bio Level 9

Current Madara is OP as hell....

Post by waybig1010101 (4,102 posts) See mini bio Level 14

@cosmicdude: current Madara is Dead.....

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