Goku Vs. Wonder Woman

Topic started by mavfan626 on June 16, 2011. Last post by SpeedForceSpider 2 years, 2 months ago.
Post by TheRedRose (1,645 posts) See mini bio Level 10
@StargunZX:  I don't think Goku mastered IT at that time or else Frieza would've been raped by Speed
Post by Hellos (2,482 posts) See mini bio Level 11
@TheRedRose said:
Goku's destructive capacity should be considered varies in range, I mean he's never blown a planet up but is capable of destroying a planet, I would perhaps put Goku in multi star busting+ since he's beaten opponents who eat stars (Broly galaxy buster & Kid Buu). Also its beyond my logic why people consider Goku Massively Hypersonic+++ So he moves a 100 times faster than a jet or bullets, that's kind of retarded, I would call his speed relativistic (Being close to light speed) or even light Speed. Also it took Goku mere seconds to reach Planet Name which is countless of light years away from Earth also out of our solar system, Should that be considered FTL? People beyond reason like putting Goku in massively Hypersonic (Which again is a ridicule thing to say especially when DBZ Fans have shown thousands of feats to pair Goku to FTL). However he is not FTL in combat speed, I can consider Goku's Combat speed to be massively hypersonic.

Kid Buu never destroyed any stars or ate them.
Post by TheRedRose (1,645 posts) See mini bio Level 10
@Hellos: Yes he has, he destroy a galaxy over years, hence proving he can destroy stars like betelgeuse. It'll be illogical to say he didn't because he time-lapsed a galaxy.
Post by Hellos (2,482 posts) See mini bio Level 11
@TheRedRose said:
@Hellos: Yes he has, he destroy a galaxy over years, hence proving he can destroy stars like betelgeuse. It'll be illogical to say he didn't because he time-lapsed a galaxy.

No he didn't, non-canon. It was established that Kid Buu's destruction count where a lot of planets over years. 
The biggest explosive power he displayed was popping the Earth with a blast that was enough to destroy it ten times over, said blast also blew him to bits before he chased after Goku and friends.
Post by StargunZX (476 posts) See mini bio Level 10
@TheRedRose said:
@StargunZX:  I don't think Goku mastered IT at that time or else Frieza would've been raped by Speed
Oh wait a minute, you're talking about when Goku went to Namek to gather the Dragon Balls?  Because at that time he went there in a space-ship and not using his powers.
Post by StargunZX (476 posts) See mini bio Level 10
@TheRedRose said:
@Hellos: Yes he has, he destroy a galaxy over years, hence proving he can destroy stars like betelgeuse. It'll be illogical to say he didn't because he time-lapsed a galaxy.
He did it only in anime filler which is not canon to the manga. So no that never happened.
Post by shonen (846 posts) See mini bio Level 9
@StargunZX said:

@TheRedRose said:

@Hellos: Yes he has, he destroy a galaxy over years, hence proving he can destroy stars like betelgeuse. It'll be illogical to say he didn't because he time-lapsed a galaxy.

He did it only in anime filler which is not canon to the manga. So no that never happened.
It never happened meaning like it never happened. FAN-FICTION. never happened  ?
 
I just need to point out one thing how is it's ok to use multiple authors in comics who write different stories for comic book characters. However, the moment someone uses anything from an anime, (especially one where the original author was involved in creating original story), that is ruled out as (made-up). I mean if where playing this game we might as well rule out all issues of Wonder Woman, except those made by her original author. After all, ever other issue is equivalent to non-cannon fodder right ?
 
It can't only hold one way right.
Post by Hellos (2,482 posts) See mini bio Level 11
@shonen said:

It never happened meaning like it never happened. FAN-FICTION. never happened  ? 


It's about as canon as this: 
 
   
  
Although fan fiction isn't too bad: 
  
   

I just need to point out one thing how is it's ok to use multiple authors in comics who write different stories for comic book characters. 

Completely different. 

However, the moment someone uses anything from an anime, (especially one where the original author was involved in creating original story), that is ruled out as (made-up).

Thats because filler has an awful habit of contradicting the story or having crazy stupid things happen.  
Like a rock being casually tossed onto someone's head, hurting them, when they tanked machine gun fire as a child.

I mean if where playing this game we might as well rule out all issues of Wonder Woman,

Your confused. 
Using filler is like using any of the films that don't fit very well into continuity.

"except those made by her original author. After all, ever other issue is equivalent to non-cannon fodder right ?  It can't only hold one way right."  

Your very confused.
Post by shonen (846 posts) See mini bio Level 9
@Hellos said:


   
How am I confused ?
 
Also for the fillers that do contradict the story. Why not just ignore them, just as how for comics we say PIS, and CIS for low showings. Like Black Panther holding Silver surfer in arm lock.
 
Also Its like comics in a sense in terms of contradiction story lines. One author would have wonder woman reacting to flash, and entering the speed force, the next author has her getting tagged by Wade Wilson. Its equivalent to filler in that the same way.
Post by Hellos (2,482 posts) See mini bio Level 11
@shonen said:
@Hellos said:

   
How am I confused ?
 
Also for the fillers that do contradict the story. Why not just ignore them, just as how for comics we ignore PIS, and CIS for low showings. Like Black Panther holding Silver surfer in arm lock.

Your trying to say "Filler should be canon because comics have different authors!, isn't that the same thing!" argument ignores that said authors are all working on the same continuity, it's all happening in the same universe.  
The only time that isn't the case is when they are retconning a character, as they recently did to Wonder Woman or soon to do to the the entire DCU.  
 
Because there are a lot of contradictions in filler most of the time or low showings or complete randomness, they simply aren't canon to the characters. 
Case and point, Hinata's super movie from Pre Shippuden that doesn't exist in shippuden. 
  
   
She could have WTF pwned Pein with that !@#$, however we see her do this once and it's in a filler episode.(cute little music, better quality!)  
So we can't just take what we want from filler that isn't canon to the source material otherwise Goku would IT spam in fights and WTF pwn anyone without it, without having to go SSJ. 
 
We ignore WIS, PIS, CIS and the lot because those are also stupid, BP armbar being an excellent example of that. He's armbaring someone that is strong enough to rip him limb from limb, doesn't need to breath, shouldn't even feel the force he exerts on him, the works.  
A better example is when they had Black Panther take down Mephisto with !@#$ing force field spam. 
 
Theres a reason why Gohan didn't get to keep his pet dragon thing and Krillin didn't get to keep his girl friend, they are about as canon to the character as a What If, if not even less so.
Post by hitsusatsu11 (10,747 posts) See mini bio Level 20
@StargunZX said:
@hitsusatsu11 said:
Anime goku has fired beams that reach the sun in seconds, thats massively FTL (hundreds and hundreds of times so) Goku simply fires off a massively FTL beam that has much much
Movie version did. And a character being able to fire FTL beams doesn't prove he himself has FTL movement.
What i'm saying is he can IT to the other side of the planet, then fire the massively FTL beam.
Post by taichokage (15,248 posts) See mini bio Level 20
@StargunZX said:
@TheRedRose said:
Also it took Goku mere seconds to reach Planet Name which is countless of light years away from Earth also out of our solar system, Should that be considered FTL?
No. Because he did it via Instant Transmision aka teleport and again that can't be used as speed feat.
Like I said before does it really matter if it's speed or teleportation? No. The point is that he can travel to any point faster than light and thus faster than Diana at her best.
Post by shonen (846 posts) See mini bio Level 9
@Hellos said:

@shonen said:

@Hellos said:


   
How am I confused ?
 
Also for the fillers that do contradict the story. Why not just ignore them, just as how for comics we ignore PIS, and CIS for low showings. Like Black Panther holding Silver surfer in arm lock.


Your trying to say "Filler should be canon because comics have different authors!, isn't that the same thing!" argument ignores that said authors are all working on the same continuity, it's all happening in the same universe.  
The only time that isn't the case is when they are retconning a character, as they recently did to Wonder Woman or soon to do to the the entire DCU.  
 
Because there are a lot of contradictions in filler most of the time or low showings or complete randomness, they simply aren't canon to the characters. 
Case and point, Hinata's super movie from Pre Shippuden that doesn't exist in shippuden. 
  
   
She could have WTF pwned Pein with that !@#$, however we see her do this once and it's in a filler episode.(cute little music, better quality!)  
So we can't just take what we want from filler that isn't canon to the source material otherwise Goku would IT spam in fights and WTF pwn anyone without it, without having to go SSJ. 
 
We ignore WIS, PIS, CIS and the lot because those are also stupid, BP armbar being an excellent example of that. He's armbaring someone that is strong enough to rip him limb from limb, doesn't need to breath, shouldn't even feel the force he exerts on him, the works.  
A better example is when they had Black Panther take down Mephisto with !@#$ing force field spam.  Theres a reason why Gohan didn't get to keep his pet dragon thing and Krillin didn't get to keep his girl friend, they are about as canon to the character as a What If, if not even less so.
 
 
1. I'm not saying to make all  fillers cannon  quite the contrary. All I'm saying is for those fillers that don't contradict said character ability it should remain as is. The hinata thing I really don't see anything outside her capability, I mean Neji and Hinata entire tech is to move fast with their hands; also that wouldn't have pwned pien.
 
2. A lot of counter example you are giving are from movies that I know aren't cannon like the cooler return movie "Goku would IT spam in fight" or Gohan's dragon "Tree of Might". Both of which are non-cannon because first one does not fit in proper cannon, and second one has contradiction riddled all the way through.  An example of a movie that doesn't contradict would be like "Bojack Unbound", "Bardock the father of Goku", "Wrath of Dragon" etc. There is a whole list of which moves are cannon or not on Dragon ball forum. You should check it out. Cheers mate. Krillin having a girlfriend wouln't have affected the overall story even if they kept her in Android saga, she's a prop a background character.
 
3. These authors in DC all work in the same continuity. Similar Akira Toriyama also talked and collaborated with members of Toei animation  and even made some filler episodes, and character designs of his own. So unlike DC writers the Toei staff had the benefit of actually working with the origiinal creator of said material while the writers at DC have to form their own idea of how the character would be.
 
4. All these authors work together on the same continuity, but if they were truly a cohesive unit, and taken into consideration each other stories, and power sets, we would not have terms for PIS, CIS, and lot of other dumb crap to explain why a fictional character is completely outside their perceived power set. In essence inconsistencies in comics and filler that contradict the orginal story are one and the same.
Post by Hellos (2,482 posts) See mini bio Level 11
@shonen said:
1. I'm not saying to make all  fillers cannon  quite the contrary. All I'm saying is for those fillers that don't contradict said character ability it should remain as is.  So for the hinata   
2. A lot of counter example you are giving are from movies that I know aren't cannon like the cooler return movie "Goku would IT spam in fight" or Gohan's dragon "Tree of Might". Both of which are non-cannon because first one does not fit in proper cannon, and second one has contradiction riddled all the way through.  An example of a movie that doesn't contradict would be like "Bojack Unbound", "Bardock the father of Goku", "Wrath of Dragon" etc. There is a whole list of which moves are cannon or not on Dragon ball forum. You should check it out. Cheers mate.  
3. These authors in DC all work in the same continuity. Similar Akira Toriyama also talked and collaborated with members of Toei animation  and even made some filler episodes, and character designs of his own. So unlike DC writers the Toei staff had the benefit of actually working with the origiinal creator of said material while the writers at DC have to form their own idea of how the character would be.   
4. All these authors work together on the same continuity, but if they were truly a coehisive unit, and taken into consideration each other power set, we would not have terms for PIS, CIS, and lot of other dumb crap. In essence insistencies in comics and filler that contradict the orginal story are one and the same.


What exactly is the point of numbering anything when you don't even reference what your replying to in the quote? 
You weren't saying much, more so complaining about the treatment of filler, such as Buu busting a galaxy, despite it contradicting what was said earlier about his history, should be canon under the notion that comics have multiple writers for different story arcs for said character. Buu can't bust galaxies in canon, much like Broly doesn't exist in canon. A lot of counter examples? I'm giving your obvious examples of stuff that is completely non-canon in the DBU. 
Just because it shares almost a completely cardboard copy of the events, much like I could point fingers at dozens of what-if's that run off the same logic, it doesn't make the anime events canon to the source material.  
Just like Kai isn't any more canon because it's a vastly slimmed down version of DBZ.
This argument is already getting headache worthy.  
Is Cross Epoch canon to the DBU characters too? Since Akira worked on it!?  
So now writers everytime they change hands on a character are writing a completely different person and basing NOTHING on what was written just before they came onto said characters book?  
Last I checked, most of Spiderman's appearances, he's generally the same guy, whether the writer writes him as omnipotent, down on his luck, even in other continuities you sometimes get the same guy, but hey whatever. 
No there would still be PIS, CIS, regardless if it's the same guy writing. PIS is a good way to make sure your character, say someone like Naruto after getting a massive upgrade, sprains his ankle and doesn't WTF pwn Kisame on his own in moments, that's PIS.
Post by shonen (846 posts) See mini bio Level 9
@Hellos said:

@shonen said:

1. I'm not saying to make all  fillers cannon  quite the contrary. All I'm saying is for those fillers that don't contradict said character ability it should remain as is.  So for the hinata   
2. A lot of counter example you are giving are from movies that I know aren't cannon like the cooler return movie "Goku would IT spam in fight" or Gohan's dragon "Tree of Might". Both of which are non-cannon because first one does not fit in proper cannon, and second one has contradiction riddled all the way through.  An example of a movie that doesn't contradict would be like "Bojack Unbound", "Bardock the father of Goku", "Wrath of Dragon" etc. There is a whole list of which moves are cannon or not on Dragon ball forum. You should check it out. Cheers mate.  
3. These authors in DC all work in the same continuity. Similar Akira Toriyama also talked and collaborated with members of Toei animation  and even made some filler episodes, and character designs of his own. So unlike DC writers the Toei staff had the benefit of actually working with the origiinal creator of said material while the writers at DC have to form their own idea of how the character would be.   
4. All these authors work together on the same continuity, but if they were truly a coehisive unit, and taken into consideration each other power set, we would not have terms for PIS, CIS, and lot of other dumb crap. In essence insistencies in comics and filler that contradict the orginal story are one and the same.



What exactly is the point of numbering anything when you don't even reference what your replying to in the quote? 
You weren't saying much, more so complaining about the treatment of filler, such as Buu busting a galaxy, despite it contradicting what was said earlier about his history, should be canon under the notion that comics have multiple writers for different story arcs for said character. Buu can't bust galaxies in canon, much like Broly doesn't exist in canon. A lot of counter examples? I'm giving your obvious examples of stuff that is completely non-canon in the DBU. Just because it shares almost a completely cardboard copy of the events, much like I could point fingers at dozens of what-if's that run off the same logic, it doesn't make the anime events canon to the source material.  Just like Kai isn't any more canon because it's a vastly slimmed down version of DBZ.This argument is already getting headache worthy.  Is Cross Epoch canon to the DBU characters too? Since Akira worked on it!?  So now writers everytime they change hands on a character are writing a completely different person and basing NOTHING on what was written just before they came onto said characters book?  Last I checked, most of Spiderman's appearances, he's generally the same guy, whether the writer writes him as omnipotent, down on his luck, even in other continuities you sometimes get the same guy, but hey whatever. No there would still be PIS, CIS, regardless if it's the same guy writing. PIS is a good way to make sure your character, say someone like Naruto after getting a massive upgrade, sprains his ankle and doesn't WTF pwn Kisame on his own in moments, that's PIS.
The point of numbering everything is to break up my argument in sub-section, and seperate them into each part I'm countering of the statment you made.
 
 I was saying plently, and I never supported that Buu feat should be considered cannon. If i did I would like you to quote me please.  What I was saying about comics is that we like to pick feats, and accept many stories from comics for different heroes as legit, despite the fact that it is made by multiple writers who often keep fluctuating the characters power gauge, creating their own individual stories, much like fillers from anime, with the exception that anime studios don't go over crazy like comics and put characters above a power set that the author has portrayed; your Hinata video does not mean much it is a variation of a technique Neji used in chunin exam.  
 
2.The examples you gave me in your previous post were "Gohan's dragon" which was created in a movie that does not fit in the main storyline, and fill with contradiction. The other example was, "Goku would IT spam in fight", both of which comes from movies filled with events that contradict the manga. So going by what I'm trying to instill into you is that they don't count (we ignore them). The Broly movie there were no contradictions so their is nothing to ignore.   
 
3. Cross Epoch was more of a crossover between DBZ and One Piece, so no it is not cannon. Just as comic fans like to ignore crossover between marvel and DC, to avoid ridiculous event involving, Batman punching the air out of Hulk, Superman getting man handled by Venom....etc.
 
Last I checked, most of Spiderman's appearances, he's generally the same guy, whether the writer writes him as omnipotent, down on his luck, even in other continuities you sometimes get the same guy, but hey whatever. No there would still be PIS, CIS, regardless if it's the same guy writing ---Hellos
 
4. That's not what I meant I was referring to fluctuation power set of said characters, and often the discontinued stories. Your not reading my post properly and seem to be going off pn  a tangent. 
 
My overall claim is don't keep with the idea that just because its filler its non-cannon by default and some sort of fan fiction. My general idea which I will recite is "If it doesn't contradict anything from the main storyline" we accept it. 
 
Lastly, I'd like to point out that you sound a bit aggravated, frustrated, and it looks like this is derailing the thread into some kind of shit storm. So to stop all this I hope we can act like grown ups and not play the internet forum game of the last person to get the last word in is right.  Take care let's just get back on topic.
Post by TheManipulater (725 posts) See mini bio Level 10
Diana wins the first. Goku wins the last, i cant see goku in ss3 losing to diana i'm sorry.
Post by BattleHeiz (5,765 posts) See mini bio Level 15
@TheRedRose said:
@Hellos: Yes he has, he destroy a galaxy over years, hence proving he can destroy stars like betelgeuse. It'll be illogical to say he didn't because he time-lapsed a galaxy.
Hey leave betelgeuse alone 
And for the record their universe is smaller than ours
Post by taichokage (15,248 posts) See mini bio Level 20
@TheManipulater said:
Diana wins the first. Goku wins the last, i cant see goku in ss3 losing to diana i'm sorry.
Fair enough I'd say.
Post by SSJjanemba (2,433 posts) See mini bio Level 11

can ssj3 goku pull 1/3rd of a planet? hehe sorry i had too
Post by mavfan626 (94 posts) See mini bio Level 10
@MisterShin said:
  @mavfan626: This is a good match-up
Thanks, I'm really surprised this had not been done before.
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