Goku vs Third Form Frieza

Topic started by SpeedForceSpider on Jan. 16, 2013. Last post by Supreme Marvel 1 year, 6 months ago.
Post by SpeedForceSpider (4,816 posts) See mini bio Level 15

No prep

Morals off

No transformations and Kaioken

This is Goku post Ginyu Zenkai

Takes place on Namek

Who wins?

Post by SpeedForceSpider (4,816 posts) See mini bio Level 15

Calling all DBZ experts.

Post by Supreme Marvel (5,063 posts) See mini bio Level 12

Well during the fight with final form Freiza, Goku struggled against Freiza while using Kaioken and Freiza was using 2% of his power. So, I don't believe Goku could beat third form Frieza if he's not using Kaioken.

My theory though.

Post by SpeedForceSpider (4,816 posts) See mini bio Level 15

@Supreme Marvel: Well Vegeta was confident in facing Final Form Frieza after his Krillin Zenkai. And his power level was around 2 mil IIRC. Then again, we know Vegeta is famous for being full of shit.

Post by Supreme Marvel (5,063 posts) See mini bio Level 12

@SpeedForceSpider: He's always confident in his ability. That, majority of the time is his downfall. As when he faced final form Freiza, nothing worked. Frieza toyed with him. I think Vegeta may have been closer to Piccolo's power, maybe a bit more or a bit less. Although worn out, Piccolo did stall Freiza long enough for the Spirit Bomb to be used.

Also, I'm not certain. But didn't Frieza increase his power percentage to 20% or 50% by that point?

Post by DBZ_universe (15,456 posts) See mini bio Level 17

@SpeedForceSpider said:

Calling all DBZ experts.

LOL.

mmm good fight. I beleive Goku can take this one in hard battle due to skills and his ability to sense which is something Frieza lacks. Goku could solar flare Frieza giving him enough damage to Kamekameha him face to face or gut him in half with DD.

But Frieza is bloodlusted here as well, that being said... he would try to blow up the planet first thing first which isn't good for Goku and get a win that way.

Post by Sonata (35,160 posts) See mini bio Level 20
Moderator
@Supreme Marvel said:

Well during the fight with final form Freiza, Goku struggled against Freiza while using Kaioken and Freiza was using 2% of his power. So, I don't believe Goku could beat third form Frieza if he's not using Kaioken.

My theory though.

Goku struggled against Frieza when he went 50% power, they were evenly matched at the beginning.  
 
I Believe Goku take this though that version of Frieza was briefly being overpowered by Gohan's blast forcing Frieza into is final transformation.. And know that Goku is much stronger a here. 
 
Post by niBBit (663 posts) See mini bio Level 11

When Goku fought Frieza (Final Form) it was stated that he had a PL of 3 million. In their fight Goku was doing oke-ish against Frieza, while Goku did land some good shots it had to do more with the fact that those hits where sneak/suprise attacks. Frieza could't sense energy witch let Goku drop the Drop Kick of Death witch sends Frieza flying into an mountain shaking the damn area so bad that Krillin/Gohan/Piccolo had trouble keeping steady feet. The second hard hit was when Frieza aatacked Goku with his hands behind his back, Goku bit his tail witch distracted/hurt Frieza and Goku kept pounding him witch knocked the breath right out him, so bad that Frieza broke his rule ''no hands'' and is seen gasping for air.

The next episode this dialog between Frieza and Goku happens ''note this is the english Anime dub''

Goku: yeah well i've got some reserves as well.

Frieza: yes i know 5, 5 times what you have displayed 10 at the ver most but i, i only have used 1% of my power.

Frieza then raised his power to 50% witch clocked at 60.000.000. I'm not very good at math so (like uber noob with it) but does that seem right what frieza says? what kind of power did Frieza had when he fought Goku. If i where to judge the fight i say Frieza had a PL of 4 million minimum to 6 million. Although Frieza was toying with Goku and made a fool out of him (fighting with his hand behind his back) Goku still did pretty decent so there difference in power isn't astronomical (imo).

As for Frieza (Third Form), i could't find any official PL reading and the ones that i found around the web put Frieza (Third Form) around 1.5 million because people on forums and wiki's seem the use a formula of adding Frieza (Base Form) PL into the transformations like this:

Frieza (Base) = 530.000

Frieza (2'nd) = 1.000.000+

Frieza (3'th) = 1.560.000

(Keep adding the 530.000)

Witch to me doesn't seem to make sense because then Frieza (Final Form) would be around 2 million witch Goku would have dominated. It could be that Frieza doubles his PL meaning Frieza (Third Form) would be around 2-2.5 million and Frieza (Final Form) around 4-5 million).

Anyway i think Goku wins this in a good fight. Goku could use the same tricks that he used against his fight against the Final Form of Frieza like exploiting Frieza's lack of sensing energy and deliver some brual combo's. Morals are also off and a no Morals Goku is nothing to laugh at.

Post by Sonata (35,160 posts) See mini bio Level 20
Moderator
@niBBit: The official PL of Frieza when he first transformed into his final form was 30 mil. Goku had the Power increase and the Kaioken X10 to keep up.
Post by niBBit (663 posts) See mini bio Level 11

@Sonata: Witch Daizenshuu did you get that PL? because i only see Frieza (50%) 60 mil and Frieza (100%) 120 mil, link?

Goku used his Kaio-Ken only when Frieza went 50%, not before.

Post by Sonata (35,160 posts) See mini bio Level 20
Moderator
@niBBit: Most of the links have read don't have Frieza's inital power level in that form. But I went but King Kai's remark that Goku has been using the Kaioken the entire fight as a reference.  
 
Post by niBBit (663 posts) See mini bio Level 11

@Sonata: We see clearly that Goku's been using his Kaio-Ken against Frieza (50%) and is getting stomped. During that scene (Anime) Goku's use of the Kaio-Ken is weird, why is that you say? because unlike in previous fights where he keeps his Kaio-Ken on for several seconds, Goku instead uses the Kaio-Ken in short bursts like when he's about to hit Frieza or when he needs the extra speed to catch him. The thing is we ONLY see Goku use the Kaio-Ken during THAT fight when Frieza is at 50% not before. That scan does not say that Goku uses the Kaio-Ken the ''entire fight'' like you said, King Kai only says that Goku is using the Kaio-Ken, only in the Anime King Kai says that Goku's been using the Kaio-Ken the entire time:

Tien: Don't forget Goku still has an ace up his sleeve right King Kai? Goku hasn't used the Kaio-Ken attack yet and when he does he will set him straight.

''Yamcha/Chouzou cheering on''

King Kai: Kock it off, you're all being foolish. You don't know what you're talking about, Goku has been using the Kaio-Ken attack the entire time.

Go watch the Anime again if you don't believe me ''DBZ - 075 Bold and Fearless'' Goku did not use the Kaio-Ken before Frieza went 50%.

Post by Sonata (35,160 posts) See mini bio Level 20
Moderator
@niBBit: You are most likely right, it one of the bigger plot holes in DBZ that Goku didn't use Kaioken earlier when Frieza was not at his best yet.
Post by SpeedForceSpider (4,816 posts) See mini bio Level 15

@niBBit: I'm pretty sure 3rd forms power isn't that close to 2nd forms.

Post by nishi99 (1,578 posts) See mini bio Level 11

Goku should take it probably Vegeta too.

Post by Supreme Marvel (5,063 posts) See mini bio Level 12

Also, in the manga (my manga, not the fans-subbed ones), when Tein talk about the kaioken;

Tien

"Have you forgotten about the kaioken? At his level of training, he should be able to multiply his power up to a factor of 10!"

King Kai

"Sorry...but he's already using the 10-fold kaioken"

To me, that implies he's been using it throughout the fight.

Post by niBBit (663 posts) See mini bio Level 11

@SpeedForceSpider: Anything is possible. Frieza's 3rd form was to short lived to meassure its strength properly.

Post by Sonata (35,160 posts) See mini bio Level 20
Moderator
@niBBit: I still believe he should be in the 30 mil range in that form , other wise it would've make much sense. Because Goku would have easily destroyed him with a double Kaioken at the start.
Post by niBBit (663 posts) See mini bio Level 11

@Sonata: The same way could be said about Frieza as Frieza would be 10x stronger than Goku. Frieza with a 10x difference in power would have not problem in beating Goku seeing as Vegeta manhandeld Dodoria with a mere 2K difference in PL, Frieza would oneshot Goku if he wanted to. Explain to me why in the world Frieza needed to raise his power to 50% to beat a person who he already is 10x stronger? even if Goku would have used his Kaio-Ken that would still only put him at 30 mil making them equal.

Watch the fight again and you will see Goku keeping up with him in the speed department in ''DBZ 072 - Ultimate Battle'' and in ''DBZ 073 Clash of the Super Powers'' he was fast enough to outrun Frieza's attack. Goku also used TK/energy burst to send Frieza swimming. Frieza was stronger but Goku still was able to do moves that where effective, now look at the fight between Nail and Frieza (Base Form), Frieza is roughly 11-12x stronger than Nail and Nail could't even MOVE Frieza, even when he attacked with his energy blast Frieza barely flinched, if Frieza was 30 mil the same result would apply here as he would be 10x stronger than Goku, he would have not been able to keep up with Frieza.

Post by Sonata (35,160 posts) See mini bio Level 20
Moderator
@niBBit: Frieza was toying with Goku most of the fight, he even admitted it. Every fight in Dragon Ball with two evenly match combatants always goes back and forth.  Piccolo vs 17, SSJ2 Goku vs. Majin Vegeta. Goku obvious felt that Frieza was powerful, but didn't tfully realize the magnitude of his power till later. So he didn't take any chance that why I believed he started the fight using KK x10. But Frieza was able to keep with that form and it went back and forth like all the other close DBZ  battles go, until Frieza finally decided to get serious and use 50% of his power and command of the fight. If Frieza was PL was truly in the 3mil range Goku would have fully dominated the fight at the start with a simple double Kaioken.
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