Goku (Instant Transmission) Vs Silver Surfer (Speed)

Topic started by comicfanforever on Nov. 18, 2009. Last post by JThree47693 4 years, 8 months ago.
Post by Newdeath (18,555 posts) See mini bio Level 19
@GIRUGAMESH said:
"@Newdeath said:
"@GIRUGAMESH: I never said his speed is unsurpassable, I said he has no known speed limit, many fictional characters don't have speed limits in their respective universes and there are other characters faster than them.   Listen. Even though IT doesn't have a known speed limit its highest speed feat still doesn't compare to the highest speed feat of The Silver Surfer so we cannot assume that it can reach the kind of speed The Surfer does because it never has and if we do it would be speculation. Just because both of them don't have known speed limits doesn't mean its a tie because IT's highest feat doesn't compare to The Surfer's highest feat. Superman's speed has no known limit as well as The Flash but it is well established that The Flash is faster because Superman has never achieved the top speed The Flash has.     ND "
That simply isn't true, Newdeath, you are making the classic comic fanboy mistake here of basing one's abilities purely on feats, you aren't applying logic here. For example, by your method of thinking it could be said that Freiza in his first form is stronger than Fat Buu, because Fat Buu never demonstrated the power to destroy a planet (which is absurd). As Rein stated, you simply cannot say that the surfer is faster because his greatest speed feat is beyond anything showed by IT, as it would be pure speculation and guesswork.  Let me provide you with an example. Being A is capable of teleporting anywhere in the universe whenever he wants (I am not necessarily suggesting that Goku is capable of that). However, Being A only likes to stay in his part of the galaxy, so he only goes to planets within that galaxy (instantly, of course). However, there is another being in this universe, Being B. Being B is capable of travelling at 1,000,000 times the speed of light, and goes off to the furthest reaches of space, demonstrating greater feats than Being A. Yet it cannot be said that Being B is faster than Being A, as Being A's travel is instantaneous. Yet an onlooker would believe that Being B would indeed have greater speed.  Now, this can easily be applied to this situation. I am not stating that Goku certainly has instant travel (as the title of the technique would suggest), but that he may, with IT, be capable of speeds far beyond the surfer. This match must therefore be considered a tie, since the upper limits of both remain unkown.  Oh and DJSNuva1, please refrain from making pointless posts. "

Actually basing a character's abilities on feats is how you determine their levels most of the time. Your Frieza example by using Fat Buu isn't a good example because first of all Fat Buu does have feats that surpass that of Frieza's e.g nearly killing Majin Vegeta (a Super Saiyan 2 level being) while Feiza could not stand against such power but I see the point you provided. 
 
You should have read the posts I made with Rein because then you would know that I now agree it is tie because it is not known if Goku does have instant movement, what I said before was simply to tell you that not always when the limits of two things are unknown mean its a tie just like the Hercules and Blue Marvel example I used before. 
 
You can't really say I wasn't using logic when I clearly was, you misinterpreted some of my words and also it isn't a classic comic fanboy mistake because a comic book fanboy would not have used examples like that and most of the time one does base their decision in battle threads based on who has higher feats so it isn't a mistake at all. Anyway you should know now that yes I agree that this is a tie. 
 
 
ND
Post by GIRUGAMESH (2,143 posts) See mini bio Level 9
@Newdeath said:
"@GIRUGAMESH said:
"@Newdeath said:
"@GIRUGAMESH: I never said his speed is unsurpassable, I said he has no known speed limit, many fictional characters don't have speed limits in their respective universes and there are other characters faster than them.   Listen. Even though IT doesn't have a known speed limit its highest speed feat still doesn't compare to the highest speed feat of The Silver Surfer so we cannot assume that it can reach the kind of speed The Surfer does because it never has and if we do it would be speculation. Just because both of them don't have known speed limits doesn't mean its a tie because IT's highest feat doesn't compare to The Surfer's highest feat. Superman's speed has no known limit as well as The Flash but it is well established that The Flash is faster because Superman has never achieved the top speed The Flash has.     ND "
That simply isn't true, Newdeath, you are making the classic comic fanboy mistake here of basing one's abilities purely on feats, you aren't applying logic here. For example, by your method of thinking it could be said that Freiza in his first form is stronger than Fat Buu, because Fat Buu never demonstrated the power to destroy a planet (which is absurd). As Rein stated, you simply cannot say that the surfer is faster because his greatest speed feat is beyond anything showed by IT, as it would be pure speculation and guesswork.  Let me provide you with an example. Being A is capable of teleporting anywhere in the universe whenever he wants (I am not necessarily suggesting that Goku is capable of that). However, Being A only likes to stay in his part of the galaxy, so he only goes to planets within that galaxy (instantly, of course). However, there is another being in this universe, Being B. Being B is capable of travelling at 1,000,000 times the speed of light, and goes off to the furthest reaches of space, demonstrating greater feats than Being A. Yet it cannot be said that Being B is faster than Being A, as Being A's travel is instantaneous. Yet an onlooker would believe that Being B would indeed have greater speed.  Now, this can easily be applied to this situation. I am not stating that Goku certainly has instant travel (as the title of the technique would suggest), but that he may, with IT, be capable of speeds far beyond the surfer. This match must therefore be considered a tie, since the upper limits of both remain unkown.  Oh and DJSNuva1, please refrain from making pointless posts. "
Actually basing a character's abilities on feats is how you determine their levels most of the time. Your Frieza example by using Fat Buu isn't a good example because first of all Fat Buu does have feats that surpass that of Frieza's e.g nearly killing Majin Vegeta (a Super Saiyan 2 level being) while Feiza could not stand against such power but I see the point you provided.  You should have read the posts I made with Rein because then you would know that I now agree it is tie because it is not known if Goku does have instant movement, what I said before was simply to tell you that not always when the limits of two things are unknown mean its a tie just like the Hercules and Blue Marvel example I used before.  You can't really say I wasn't using logic when I clearly was, you misinterpreted some of my words and also it isn't a classic comic fanboy mistake because a comic book fanboy would not have used examples like that and most of the time one does base their decision in battle threads based on who has higher feats so it isn't a mistake at all. Anyway you should know now that yes I agree that this is a tie.   ND "

Hurray, soz for any misconceptions, lock the thread and lets go home.
Post by Newdeath (18,555 posts) See mini bio Level 19
@GIRUGAMESH: Indeed. I believe we are all in agreement that this is a tie. I'll tell Kelleth this one can be locked. 
 
 
ND
Post by JThree47693 (1,081 posts) See mini bio Level 5

Im not, Surfer has better speed feats than Goku using IT, therefor he is faster. Im only going by what is shown.
Post by GIRUGAMESH (2,143 posts) See mini bio Level 9
@JThree47693 said:
"Im not, Surfer has better speed feats than Goku using IT, therefor he is faster. Im only going by what is shown. "
And that is why you fail. 
Read all of the previous arguments, this is a tie.
Post by JThree47693 (1,081 posts) See mini bio Level 5

I dont fail. I go by what is shown. IT hasnt shown a limit, but Gokus biggest IT feat was going to Namek instantly. Something Surfer could accomplish quite easily. But if you believe its a tie, what ever, lets just agree to disagree.
Post by GIRUGAMESH (2,143 posts) See mini bio Level 9
@JThree47693 said:
"I dont fail. I go by what is shown. IT hasnt shown a limit, but Gokus biggest IT feat was going to Namek instantly. Something Surfer could accomplish quite easily. But if you believe its a tie, what ever, lets just agree to disagree. "
Sounds good to me, but did you read the analogy I gave? Regarding the whole 'uncertain' limits thing?
Post by JThree47693 (1,081 posts) See mini bio Level 5
@GIRUGAMESH said:
"@JThree47693 said:
"I dont fail. I go by what is shown. IT hasnt shown a limit, but Gokus biggest IT feat was going to Namek instantly. Something Surfer could accomplish quite easily. But if you believe its a tie, what ever, lets just agree to disagree. "
Sounds good to me, but did you read the analogy I gave? Regarding the whole 'uncertain' limits thing? "

Yes, I read it. But like I said, Im only going by what is shown.
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