Goku (Instant Transmission) Vs Silver Surfer (Speed)

Topic started by comicfanforever on Nov. 18, 2009. Last post by JThree47693 4 years, 8 months ago.
Post by soldier (495 posts) See mini bio Level 7
@Newdeath:
Yes silver surfer is clearly faster than light, but instant Transmission, in the name is quite clear. Let me back this up with evidence: to Cell goku had disappeared and reappeared, yet as we see in the Broly movie it appears that goku is actually Travelling. With instant transmission no top speed is mentioned in the manga, and in the meta-cooler movie we see that cooler was even faster than Goku whilst using it, which suggests that either the speed increases as you master it, or rather that whilst moving at speed infinity, i.e. time frozen, they can still have a velocity to their standards, which breaks all laws of science and common sense. 
 
But I suppose that Goku does not quite have instant movement like the supreme kai who can literally go anywhere in the universe instantly (due to being a kai). The numbers for silver surfer and goku are too ridiculous to show, they make light look so bad that we might as well make a new unit of speed, Lol 
 
If goku was travelling at light speed Cell would have detected him. In the Freiza saga it was implied very strongly that Freiza was even faster than the spaceship goku took to Namek. So just imagine the difference in speed when cell achieves his perfect form, and then for goku to actually have "disappeared", is quite remarkable as his reaction was not like Vegeta's who said it is just super speed, however he literally described it as disappear and reappear. Goku was also able to somehow get into master Roshi's house, get Roshi's glasses without him seeing, then locking back onto Vegeta and the others, all without anybody seeing, this is the sam Roshi that was able to have a huge fight with krillin in the blink of an eye. 
 
So it is complicated, maybe their are various different aspects to the instant transmission as the people he learnt it from where able to manipulate space and time. Goku has basically at his disposal a technique with no upper limit, which has pulled off incredible feats whilst using it not even in a fight, so I think that goku would win.
Post by soldier (495 posts) See mini bio Level 7
@Kelleth:
Yeah sorry about that
Post by Newdeath (18,555 posts) See mini bio Level 19
@soldier: Using Cooler etc. does not apply because they are non cannon. Now The Silver Surfer has on at least one occasion gotten to the end of the universe in minutes, Goku has never shown this kind of speed nor has he ever been fast enough to enter hyperspace. Now Goku clearly states that IT allows him to move at light speed so I stand by that it does otherwise Goku would not know much about his own technique, I believe that the instances when DBZ characters are shown moving faster than light it is either non cannon (in movies) or inconsistency. Even if it wasn't there is no evidence that Goku whilst using IT is as fast let alone faster than the Silver Surfer.
 
 
ND
Post by soldier (495 posts) See mini bio Level 7
@Newdeath said:
" @soldier: Using Cooler etc. does not apply because they are non cannon. Now The Silver Surfer has on at least one occasion gotten to the end of the universe in minutes, Goku has never shown this kind of speed nor has he ever been fast enough to enter hyperspace. Now Goku clearly states that IT allows him to move at light speed so I stand by that it does otherwise Goku would not know much about his own technique, I believe that the instances when DBZ characters are shown moving faster than light it is either non cannon (in movies) or inconsistency. Even if it wasn't there is no evidence that Goku whilst using IT is as fast let alone faster than the Silver Surfer.  ND "

Could you be more precise with the minutes thing. Goku precisely stated something which was not in the manga, just as picollo precisely stated something which was not in the manga, and as the saiyan saga was first, inconsistencies follow later. The evidence of goku being faster than silver surfer I admit comes from movies, but I assumed as animevice has accepted characters such as Broly, and others, that it would be accepted.  
What makes you think that hyperspace exists in dbz? 
The clear representations of instant transmission are in the movies. It is boldly shown on many occasions to be mere inconsistencies in my view, and characters have backed up what they say with proof. But I suppose to each his own.
Post by Nerx (13,843 posts) See mini bio Level 12
the difference is
 
one of them is actually re-designed by a higher being to a cross the cosmos far and wide in order to find planets to seize 
 
the other one only does that when they changes form, less experience and lazyness because they only do when their galaxy is at stake
Post by Newdeath (18,555 posts) See mini bio Level 19
@soldier: It is never really stated how many minutes it took him to reach the other end of the universe but it was mentioned that it was brief. Secondly we only non-cannon feats when we are debating about non-cannon characters because they only have non-cannon feats. Hyperspace is a dimension where speed is not restricted to the speed of light, I did not say there was any hyperspace in the DBZ Universe but in other fictional universes hyperspace does exist but that really isn't the matter at hand. The amount of speed the Silver Surfer would have to use to reach the other end of the universe in brief minutes would be tremendous considering how vast the Marvel Universe is. 
 
 
ND
Post by soldier (495 posts) See mini bio Level 7
@Newdeath said:
" @soldier: It is never really stated how many minutes it took him to reach the other end of the universe but it was mentioned that it was brief. Secondly we only non-cannon feats when we are debating about non-cannon characters because they only have non-cannon feats. Hyperspace is a dimension where speed is not restricted to the speed of light, I did not say there was any hyperspace in the DBZ Universe but in other fictional universes hyperspace does exist but that really isn't the matter at hand. The amount of speed the Silver Surfer would have to use to reach the other end of the universe in brief minutes would be tremendous considering how vast the Marvel Universe is.   ND "

The point that I am trying to make is that goku's version of instant movement, is ridiculously fast, because he went to Namek and back in barely any time. Majin Buu was clearly way faster than light as he went from planet to planet instantly. I will give you that kid buu's version is better than goku's version. But goku's instant transmission in the canon is unknown, because although light speed is mentioned, the feats plainly disagree, and no upper limit is mentioned, goku' only limit is his ki sensing, otherwise he would have gone to Namek. Goku uses the ki as a map. Supreme kai was not bounded by this and so could travel anywhere instantly. 
 
Silver surfer is fast nonetheless but i do say that without the non-canon we have no actual indication, and as it is commonly associated with kid buu's version and supreme kai's version an assumption can be made that goku's technique is somewhat similar to their "instant technique"
Post by Newdeath (18,555 posts) See mini bio Level 19
@soldier: The DBZ Universe has been shown to be ridiculously small and we must consider that Kid Buu was teleporting from planet to planet he was not using speed. Secondly DBZ has far too much inconsistency, the reason why it is generally accepted that Instant Transmission only allows Goku to travel at light speed is because he stated so and he has never said that it would allow him to go any faster than that, and the times when Goku appears to be faster whilst using IT is not accepted because DBZ is filled with inconsistency and it would only make sense that when Goku moves faster than light it is inconsistency because he clearly stated that it allows him to move at the speed of light and if he can actually move faster than that then he was contradicting himself. I recall reading a post by a user years ago who stated that Akira Toriyama said "Goku went from supersonic speeds to light speed" but said user's words cannot be trusted. 
 
Consider how large and vast the Marvel Universe is. There are several beings who move much faster than the speed of light such as Thor who have never shown the kind of speed The Surfer has, Doctor Strange via teleportation was able to travel from galaxy to galaxy. The Silver Surfer reaching the other side of the universe in brief seconds is far greater speed feat than anything ever shown in DBZ. 
 
 
ND
Post by JJOR64 (2,074 posts) See mini bio Level 16
Snorlax is faster.  :P
Post by Nerx (13,843 posts) See mini bio Level 12
@JJOR64 said:
" Snorlax is faster.  :P "
My favorite pokemon xD
Post by soldier (495 posts) See mini bio Level 7
@Newdeath said:
" @soldier: The DBZ Universe has been shown to be ridiculously small and we must consider that Kid Buu was teleporting from planet to planet he was not using speed. Secondly DBZ has far too much inconsistency, the reason why it is generally accepted that Instant Transmission only allows Goku to travel at light speed is because he stated so and he has never said that it would allow him to go any faster than that, and the times when Goku appears to be faster whilst using IT is not accepted because DBZ is filled with inconsistency and it would only make sense that when Goku moves faster than light it is inconsistency because he clearly stated that it allows him to move at the speed of light and if he can actually move faster than that then he was contradicting himself. I recall reading a post by a user years ago who stated that Akira Toriyama said "Goku went from supersonic speeds to light speed" but said user's words cannot be trusted.  Consider how large and vast the Marvel Universe is. There are several beings who move much faster than the speed of light such as Thor who have never shown the kind of speed The Surfer has, Doctor Strange via teleportation was able to travel from galaxy to galaxy. The Silver Surfer reaching the other side of the universe in brief seconds is far greater speed feat than anything ever shown in DBZ.   ND "

Actually that in itself is an inconsistency, because remember Kid Buu had destroyed galaxies, and so we do't know the size of the DBZ universe, in fact maybe it it is just that the galaxies are very spaced out. We know that galaxies have been destroyed on several occasions and so the gap of the galaxies could be very big, but that is just a hunch. lol. 
That is why  brought in the movies, to show that it is not mere teleportation. Therefore, the supreme kai who can go anywhere in the universe instantly is actually moving at speed infinity.  I am not too sure about what that user said, I will have to look it up. The marvel universe is huge, and I know that that is a brilliant feat, and I will not eny that for a second, heck I know silver surfer is one of the fastest characters in existence, but although goku clearly states the "speed" of the instant transmission, Picollo also clearly states the speed of his special beam cannon and clearly states that Raditz is faster than light. 
 
In DBZ the series I have to agree with you that silver surfer's speed beat anything SHOWN in dbz, because they don't really show what it is, it was just a disappear and reappear feat, without explaining what it actually is, Goku mentions that it is the speed of light, and vegeta assumes that goku's technique was super speed, yet knew that it was something special whenhe went to the other side of earth and back, whilst stealing an item getting into the ouse, and having to sense the z-fighters to come back. 
 
But I really urge that the use of the instant transmission feats from movies are useful as they demonstrate what it actually is, and hope you realise that although goku states that instant transmission is the speed of light, you have to ask yourself, okay, so is he slower than Raditz or Burter?
Post by GIRUGAMESH (2,143 posts) See mini bio Level 9
@soldier said:
"@Newdeath said:
" @soldier: The DBZ Universe has been shown to be ridiculously small and we must consider that Kid Buu was teleporting from planet to planet he was not using speed. Secondly DBZ has far too much inconsistency, the reason why it is generally accepted that Instant Transmission only allows Goku to travel at light speed is because he stated so and he has never said that it would allow him to go any faster than that, and the times when Goku appears to be faster whilst using IT is not accepted because DBZ is filled with inconsistency and it would only make sense that when Goku moves faster than light it is inconsistency because he clearly stated that it allows him to move at the speed of light and if he can actually move faster than that then he was contradicting himself. I recall reading a post by a user years ago who stated that Akira Toriyama said "Goku went from supersonic speeds to light speed" but said user's words cannot be trusted.  Consider how large and vast the Marvel Universe is. There are several beings who move much faster than the speed of light such as Thor who have never shown the kind of speed The Surfer has, Doctor Strange via teleportation was able to travel from galaxy to galaxy. The Silver Surfer reaching the other side of the universe in brief seconds is far greater speed feat than anything ever shown in DBZ.   ND "
Actually that in itself is an inconsistency, because remember Kid Buu had destroyed galaxies, and so we do't know the size of the DBZ universe, in fact maybe it it is just that the galaxies are very spaced out. We know that galaxies have been destroyed on several occasions and so the gap of the galaxies could be very big, but that is just a hunch. lol. That is why  brought in the movies, to show that it is not mere teleportation. Therefore, the supreme kai who can go anywhere in the universe instantly is actually moving at speed infinity.  I am not too sure about what that user said, I will have to look it up. The marvel universe is huge, and I know that that is a brilliant feat, and I will not eny that for a second, heck I know silver surfer is one of the fastest characters in existence, but although goku clearly states the "speed" of the instant transmission, Picollo also clearly states the speed of his special beam cannon and clearly states that Raditz is faster than light.  In DBZ the series I have to agree with you that silver surfer's speed beat anything SHOWN in dbz, because they don't really show what it is, it was just a disappear and reappear feat, without explaining what it actually is, Goku mentions that it is the speed of light, and vegeta assumes that goku's technique was super speed, yet knew that it was something special whenhe went to the other side of earth and back, whilst stealing an item getting into the ouse, and having to sense the z-fighters to come back.  But I really urge that the use of the instant transmission feats from movies are useful as they demonstrate what it actually is, and hope you realise that although goku states that instant transmission is the speed of light, you have to ask yourself, okay, so is he slower than Raditz or Burter? "

Raditz and Burter are not FTL. 
 
However, Newdeath, you can't say that the DBZ universe is smaller than our one, that's ridiculous, as far as we know, it's the same universe (no I'm not suggesting that kai's exist and that you turn into a cloud when you die, but it is the same template, Bulma even states "we've already passed Jupiter" at one point). Oh and Goku may have stated that it was light speed, but many of his IT feats would indicate otherwise (I've already given this argument at an earlier stage, but what the hell). Bulma arrived at Jupiter in a matter of seconds using the namekian spaceship, but in the same ship took several weeks to get to namek. However, Goku arrived at new namek in the blink of an eye, so it must be far beyond lightspeed.
Post by Sonata (35,159 posts) See mini bio Level 20
Moderator
@GIRUGAMESH: It is Mathematically impossible for a being going light speed to reach  a galaxy in mere seconds, its either A. Goku is truly an Idiot and does not know his own technique or B. Major miscalculation in writing.
Post by Newdeath (18,555 posts) See mini bio Level 19
@GIRUGAMESH: Like Sonata said, either Goku does not know enough about his own technique or there was a serious mistake in the writing. 
 
 
ND
Post by GIRUGAMESH (2,143 posts) See mini bio Level 9
@Sonata said:
" @GIRUGAMESH: It is Mathematically impossible for a being going light speed to reach  a galaxy in mere seconds, its either A. Goku is truly an Idiot and does not know his own technique or B. Major miscalculation in writing. "

I would opt for A, since that seems far more likely given Goku's character. And regardless of bad writing, it still happened. As I have already mentioned, it may be that Goku found a way to increase its speed (btw, nice new pic newdeath).
Post by Newdeath (18,555 posts) See mini bio Level 19
@GIRUGAMESH: Thanks. If Goku doesn't know enough about his own technique then well I don't know what to say. If it is bad writing then we can't take it seriously for example: Squirrel Girl defeated Thanos but based on abilities and powers she shouldn't even faze him.  
 
 
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Post by GIRUGAMESH (2,143 posts) See mini bio Level 9
@Newdeath said:
" @GIRUGAMESH: Thanks. If Goku doesn't know enough about his own technique then well I don't know what to say. If it is bad writing then we can't take it seriously for example: Squirrel Girl defeated Thanos but based on abilities and powers she shouldn't even faze him.    ND "

Indeed (damn you japanese writers and your inconsistencies!)
Post by Newdeath (18,555 posts) See mini bio Level 19
@GIRUGAMESH: LOL, couldn't have said it better myself. 
 
 
ND
Post by taichokage (12,622 posts) See mini bio Level 20
Online Now
Surfer is faster but Goku can go much faster than lightspeed (according to dbz wiki he can travel light years in seconds) also he proved that in the broly movie when he travel by entire solar systems less than a second.
Post by Newdeath (18,555 posts) See mini bio Level 19
@taichokage: While I am not looking to start an argument, the DBZ wiki is still a wiki which is editable by any user so the information found there is not always genuine. 
 
 
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