Goku End of z vs Mystic Gohan

Topic started by chrono122 on May 20, 2012. Last post by DBZ_universe 1 year, 9 months ago.
Post by Sonata (35,313 posts) See mini bio Level 20
Moderator
@SpeedForceSpider: Yet Vegeta was able to combat SS3 Gotenks. Plothole #1034 in DBZ.
Post by The_original_goku10000 (119 posts) See mini bio Level 9

@Sonata said:

@The_original_goku10000: Thats not the same Gohan as the real one.

Yeah, but there power are with par with the original.

Post by dbzmeister (45 posts) See mini bio Level 6

Goku wins. 10 years of training even in peacetime is a huge amount for Goku. Considering from the very start of Z till the outset of the Buu saga was only like a fifteen year period and the massive progress he made there there is just no way I could imagine that he wouldn't get several times stronger. There were obviously extenuating circumstances but even in times of peace Goku has shown remarkable growth.

The five year period post-Cell seen him get many times stronger with no specific motivation. Those who are arguing that he could only achieve this through having such a unique training environment are forgetting his instant transmission, Goku could easily instant transmit there still to train with the likes of Pikkon, whilst having powerful training beats like Vegeta and Piccolo to keep him motivated. He has access to Capsule Corp through Bulma and all the technology he could ever need to aid his training.

Goku has been proven to display a similar level of Saiyan pride to Vegeta and there is no way I can see him accepting anyone else even his own son being stronger than him for long. The fact that Goku matched an admittedly relatively unskilled Uub, whilst only in Base form at the end of Z confirms this theory. When you add in Goku's far superior skill, resolve and ability to pull out a win in just about any given situation I just can't see Gohan winning this.

Post by MarioRedfield (1,730 posts) See mini bio Level 11

If Captain America can somehow put the hurting on the Hulk I don't see how Goku can't put the hurting on his son when he's vastly more skilled.

Post by DBZ_universe (15,661 posts) See mini bio Level 17

@MarioRedfield: Not if Gohan Kamekameha Goku in the face.. and Goku has nothing powerful to counter a full powered kamekameha from Gohan.. not even Genkidama would work on Gohan since he is also pure heart.

Post by dbzmeister (45 posts) See mini bio Level 6

@DBZ_universe: He could've did that against either Cell or Super-Buu and didn't manage it. Gohan has a history of losing to people weaker than him through a lack of natural fighting intuition/cutting edge, he doesn't have the mentality and has never fought anyone as skilled or resourceful as his father.

Post by DBZ_universe (15,661 posts) See mini bio Level 17

@dbzmeister: That's because of Saiyan ego... All saiyan are like that even Vegeta..

Yes Gohan has fought people as skilled as Goku... and that was Cell... Cell had all skills of Goku, Vegeta, Fireza, Androids, Piccolo.. and more...

if Gohan is bloodlusted.. than he would wreck Goku..

even when he was 5 years old, he was stronger than Goku..

Post by dbzmeister (45 posts) See mini bio Level 6

@DBZ_universe: Cell had more techniques but Goku has still proven himsekf to be far more intelligent and resourceful in battle, his only real rival in that field is arguably Piccolo. Given 10 years training time post-Buu I think Goku would be stronger regardless but even if he fell slightly short power-wise he'd find a way against a character who has tremendous natural power but doesn't have the mentality of a fighter. He's beaten enemies like Frieza, Piccolo and Buu with a lower power form the outset there's no reason why he wouldn't do the same to Gohan.

Post by Supreme Marvel (5,111 posts) See mini bio Level 12

Well in less than a year Gohan managed to over take Goku, while Goku still trained in the Hyperbolic Time Chamber and still miles apart in power. Mystic Gohan was a lot more powerful than Goku at the time when Gohan became Mystic. So 10 years of training for both, because we don't know if either trained constantly. Schrodinger's cat. So say they trained evenly, or to their maximum while training, my guess and opinion would always be Gohan.

Post by dbzmeister (45 posts) See mini bio Level 6

@Supreme Marvel: There's no evidence to suggest that Gohan would train in the 10 year gap though. He didn't in the Cell/Buu gap with Vegeta even commenting he had become weaker. He also didn't eneter the tournament at the end of Z again suggesting he has no real passion for fighting and wouldn't train. Goku by contrast has been shown to train constantly fuelled by his passion for fighting.

Post by MarioRedfield (1,730 posts) See mini bio Level 11

@DBZ_universe: He wouldn't do that unless bloodlusted and if he was then Goku's spirit bomb would tear him a new one

Post by Supreme Marvel (5,111 posts) See mini bio Level 12

@dbzmeister said:

@Supreme Marvel: There's no evidence to suggest that Gohan would train in the 10 year gap though. He didn't in the Cell/Buu gap with Vegeta even commenting he had become weaker. He also didn't eneter the tournament at the end of Z again suggesting he has no real passion for fighting and wouldn't train. Goku by contrast has been shown to train constantly fuelled by his passion for fighting.

I believe because Goku wasn't around he didn't train during that gap. Goku being there, he is more likely to train. With him around there is loads of evidence for Gohan to train.

Post by DBZ_universe (15,661 posts) See mini bio Level 17

@dbzmeister: Well the only key for success Goku has is the Destructo Disk... and tha's it.... but he wont get a chance to use it before Gohan KOs him...

Post by DBZ_universe (15,661 posts) See mini bio Level 17

@MarioRedfield: Goku wont have time to create a Genkidama while facing a bloodlusted Gohan... Gohan would go straight ftw while Goku is creating it.

Post by niBBit (664 posts) See mini bio Level 11

I think Mystic Gohan still takes this. Its true that Goku should be stronger after all of those years of training but this time its different. Most of the time while Goku was training he was preparing for an powerfull opponent like Frieza/Androids/Cell and was training intensly, i don't see Goku training like he did with Gohan in the RoSaT in these peacefull times. Knowing Gohan he should be weaker like after his battle with Cell because of his mother finding an education the most important thing for him to have. I'm not saying that it is impossible for Goku to have such an power increase because DBZ is famous for characters to go from an PL of 2000 to go to having an PL of 2.000.000 in like 2 years of something like that but like i said most of those increases where character training for somebody and those training sessions are alot more demanding than training while there is peace.

We also don't know if Goku trained with Vegeta/Piccolo or even Gohan and to me none of these seem a likley sparring partner. Piccolo sits on the lookout all day and night, Vegeta doesn't seem the type to go training with Goku and Gohan would be to busy with his books. We only see him with Goten and him to was busy trying to score dates, so Goku IMO would probably training mostly alone and probably not using the Gravity Machine or something like that and thus would not recieve such an dramatic increase in power like he did in the RoSaT or preparing for the Androids etc.

Post by MarioRedfield (1,730 posts) See mini bio Level 11

@DBZ_universe: Goku wins in an eating contest

Post by DBZ_universe (15,661 posts) See mini bio Level 17

@MarioRedfield: lol, yes he wins.. but Gohan will still give a good challenge due to the fact that saiyans can consume a lot of food... same for Vegeta... and imagine Broly!! I can bet anything that he can eat 4X what Goku can eat lol

Post by ReiKai (3,510 posts) See mini bio Level 10
Despite not having trained for 7yrs, Gohan filled that power gap in just a few days while training on the Supreme Kai's world and then exceeded it when given the mystic power up by Elder Kai. This placed Gohan at a higher level than SS3 Goku. One of the main bonuses of this was the fact that Gohan could not transform, and in fact no longer needed to. It was no longer necessary for Gohan to transform in order to achieve the higher echelons of power. Because of this, he doesn't suffer from the constant power consumption that goes along with transformations.
 
As we've seen, SS3 cannot be maintained indefinitely, and Goku overestimated his own limits in that form because he had only ever used it initially while he was 'Dead' and thus did not use as much energy as a living body would have. Once he was revived however, Goku quickly learned that his initial assessments were wrong, as he was incapable of 'recharging' himself in SS3 in 3min as he had while he was still dead. SS3 consumes and enormous amount of energy to maintain, and while it gave Goku a slight edge over Kid Buu, ultimately he wouldn't have been able to deliver a fatal blow without outside help, as Kid Buu's energy was essentially limitless (much like Androids #17&#18).
 
For this, even if Goku and Gohan were each allowed to train equally for 10yrs, Gohan would still be more powerful. The facts haven't changed.
Post by xlab3000 (1,393 posts) See mini bio Level 10

we still got goku-tards, mystic gohan was stated to be the strongest non-fused character in the daizenshuu, gt and movies are non-canon

Post by DBZ_universe (15,661 posts) See mini bio Level 17

@xlab3000 said:

we still got goku-tards.

That's not nice.

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