Battles

This is the Super Saiyan 2 version of Gohan that fought Dabura before he got his butt kicked my Fat Buu. So who would win? Pikkon or the weaker SS2 version of Gohan?

This technically should be an easy win for Pikkon. If I recall he was much stronger than Cell after Gohan SSJ2 killed Cell for good and sent him to the underworld as was shown when he put Cell in jail. This Cell should have been even stronger than the one that fought Gohan given his Sayain genes but this is unproven. However it still stands that Pikkon was stronger than him. Old Gohan SSJ2 was reputed to have been a lot weaker than he was when he fought Super Cell so given the current evidence and this being a fair fight and all I would have to say Pikkon would win.

@ohgodwhy: Pikkon didn't really beat Cell. His speed just suprised Cell long enough for Pikkon to use his powers. But anyways, I think Cell vs Pikkon would be a great fight.

@GhostRider29: I just rewatched the fight. Pikkon took Cell out in 2 moves. He didn't even attack Cell from behind, he just charged straight into him. If Cell couldn't react to that then Pikkon was obviously far too fast for him and still for someone as powerful as Cell to be taken out in just 2 normal hits shows that Pikkon was also a lot more powerful than Cell. The whole point of that little encounter was to show us that Pikkon is more powerful than Cell and therefore Goku has to train more in order to beat him, pretty standard DBZ lore lol. Whenever you beat one person another stronger person arrives.

IT does seem likely that based on what we saw MSSJ Goku was indeed stronger than SSJ2 Gohan or at least as strong as SSJ2 Gohan.

However Pikkon was a filler character and therein lies the problem because even I'm a bit confused about his strength. It's definitely shown that he is a lot stronger than Cell however Goku beat him without even turning SSJ2. I think this confusion is due to shoddy filler arc writing.

Thing is, the filler is crap. Cell was screwing around, as he often does, and the only thing Pikkon did was kick a distracted Cell onto a spike in HFIL where Cell was then locked up in jail. There was no fight, and since Pikkon was about even with SS2 Goku who, while both are dead, use less energy than when alive, wouldn't be any match for the more powered up Super Perfect Cell once he regenerated after self-destructing. In otherwords, the whole scene with Pikkon was bullshit.
 
Now, Gohan while facing Dabura was weaker than his Teen self, but only really because he didn't have the same drive to defeat Dabura that he did with Cell when Cell killed Android #16. Gohan didn't re-tap that inner rage until he had to try and stop Buu from awakening, which isn't that big a difference. He could certainly require that here against Pikkon if he was driven into a corner. By all accounts it should at least be a decent fight until Gohan stops acting like such a pussy and rages out. I mean seriously he had to deal with ChiChi making him study for 7yrs. He deserves some credit for surviving that.

@SpeedForceSpider said:

@ohgodwhy: Yeah but wouldn't that make SSJ2 Gohan weaker than MSSJ Goku who fought Pikkon on equal terms that doesn't make sense unless Goku's MSSJ>>SSJ2 Gohan at least. So, Goku and Vegeta are A LOT more powerful than Gohan's SSJ2 not just in a slight margin.

@GhostRider29: Doesn't that hurt the theory of Ultimate Gohan>>>SSJ3 Goku in a large gap of power?

SpeedForce, what do you mean?

OGW, That really doesn't make much sense to me. lol SS2 should be past MSSJ anyday.

@GhostRider29: Yeah lol that's what I was kind of trying to get at, seems like the whole filler arc just confused itself with power levels. Let's say for example that Cell was "screwing around", which I doubt he was, he still got his ass handed to him in 2 moves which would make Pikkon pretty damn strong. Atleast far stronger than MSSJ Goku you would think, but somehow MSSJ Goku was fighting equally with him with little effort it seemed. In fact if I recall Goku spent most of that fight not even as a Super Sayain. It's all bullshit when it comes to Pikkon imo.

But what's this about Ultimate Gohan being stronger than SSJ3 Goku?? Surely SSJ3 Goku is stronger than Ultimate Gohan, I remember Goku saying several times that he was only messing around in SSJ3 when fighting Buu. Once when he fought Fat Buu he said he wasn't fighting at full power because he wanted Trunks and Goten to beat him and then once again when he was fighting Kid Buu he wasn't fighting at full power because he wanted to let Vegeta have a go fighting him.

@ohgodwhy said:

@GhostRider29: Yeah lol that's what I was kind of trying to get at, seems like the whole filler arc just confused itself with power levels. Let's say for example that Cell was "screwing around", which I doubt he was, he still got his ass handed to him in 2 moves which would make Pikkon pretty damn strong. Atleast far stronger than MSSJ Goku you would think, but somehow MSSJ Goku was fighting equally with him with little effort it seemed. In fact if I recall Goku spent most of that fight not even as a Super Sayain. It's all bullshit when it comes to Pikkon imo.

But what's this about Ultimate Gohan being stronger than SSJ3 Goku?? Surely SSJ3 Goku is stronger than Ultimate Gohan, I remember Goku saying several times that he was only messing around in SSJ3 when fighting Buu. Once when he fought Fat Buu he said he wasn't fighting at full power because he wanted Trunks and Goten to beat him and then once again when he was fighting Kid Buu he wasn't fighting at full power because he wanted to let Vegeta have a go fighting him.

I don't understand it and I never will. If Goku was stronger than Gohan, why was he actually afraid to compete against Super Buu? And Gotanks was SS3 obsorbed by Super Buu and Gohan still was able to fight him for a while. Goku even admits that Gohan was extremely powerful. This is what I'm getting at. The original attention for the ending of Dragon Ball Z was Gohan was Suppose to kill Buu. But the board thought that it would be more popular to have Goku beat buu. So Kid Buu was made, hence an unreasonable transformation that made no sense at all. My bet is on Gohan being stronger than Goku because he could handle Super Buu(Who some argue on being stronger than Kid Buu. I personally believe Super Buu is stronger, but that Kid buu has literal unlimited power.) with Gotanks SS3 form. Sure Goku fought SS3 Buu for a while, but had an extremely hard time even keeping up while Gohan was able to go toe to toe with SS3 Super Buu for a while. I believe that Super Buu is stronger than kid buu, and that Gohan is stronger than Goku. I'm betting that you believe Goku is stronger than Gohan, and that Kid Buu is stronger than Super Buu. Doesn't really matter what either of us believe. Neither can be proven. So we can agree to disagree. :)

Super Buu >/= Kid Buu
 
SS3 Goku is about on par with Kid Buu. He only tells Vegeta that he might've won if he'd gone all out at the beginning instead of burning himself down to give Vegeta a shot at fighting (It's actually just bullshit). So, even assuming Goku could've done that if he'd used every last ounce of his power, Ultima-Gohan was smacking Super Buu around like nobodies business. Gohan had the fight won easy until SS3 Gotenks was absorbed (Gotenks who was actually giving Super Buu a hard time in battle) and absorbed Piccolo as well (who has around USSJ level of power).
 
So, is Ultima-Gohan stronger than SS3 Goku? Yes. Blatantly yes. The first idea that popped into Goku's head with the Namekian Dragonballs was "We can wish Gohan back and he can defeat Buu!"

@GhostRider29: I see lol dropped some knowledge on my ass.

@ReiKai said:

Super Buu >/= Kid Buu SS3 Goku is about on par with Kid Buu. He only tells Vegeta that he might've won if he'd gone all out at the beginning instead of burning himself down to give Vegeta a shot at fighting (It's actually just bullshit). So, even assuming Goku could've done that if he'd used every last ounce of his power, Ultima-Gohan was smacking Super Buu around like nobodies business. Gohan had the fight won easy until SS3 Gotenks was absorbed (Gotenks who was actually giving Super Buu a hard time in battle) and absorbed Piccolo as well (who has around USSJ level of power). So, is Ultima-Gohan stronger than SS3 Goku? Yes. Blatantly yes. The first idea that popped into Goku's head with the Namekian Dragonballs was "We can wish Gohan back and he can defeat Buu!"

Thank you! So true! Lol But it can be confusing though.

@ohgodwhy said:

@GhostRider29: I see lol dropped some knowledge on my ass.

LOL

@MisterShin said:

@GhostRider29:

Ultimate Gohan > SSJ3 Gotenks (Gotenks states Gohan is stronger) > SSJ3 Goku = Kid Buu >= Super Buu (The power was rising during the transformation to Kid Buu, Goku & Vegeta later laugh at Kid Buu's Size, because he got smaller)
http://www.mangareader.net/105-3157-13/dragon-ball/chapter-508.html

Super Buu = Fat Buu (They have exact same powerlevel, Super Buu is more evil mindset & better body for fighting) >= SSJ Gotenks - Post ROSAT
http://www.mangareader.net/105-3136-2/dragon-ball/chapter-487.html Ultimate Gohan is the strongest NON-FUSED Character in DB. 2nd Strongest Saiyan, behind Vegitto.

Oh my. Really? Why was Goku afraid to take on Super Buu then? Goku also admits that Gotenks has surpassed him power I believe(Been a while since I watched Gotenks. I hate fusions)