Gag Fight - Marvel Avengers VS Shonen-J Alliance

Topic started by SMXLR8 on July 20, 2013. Last post by Sonata 8 months, 3 weeks ago.
Post by SMXLR8 (6,906 posts) See mini bio Level 16
Online Now

@YoungChief: I meant about the fight since people are only talking but thor and goku also do you have to quote me to respond

Post by solesamurai (1,250 posts) See mini bio Level 8

@Dream said:

@solesamurai: Comics quite often place PIS/ CIS cases on characters to have them lose to significantly weaker foes with some infamous cases being the Spider-Man/ Firelord fiasco and Silver Surfer losing to far weaker foes for storytelling purposes. Saying they'll lose due to the writers trying to keep the plot interesting with weaker foes is quite laughable.

Thor's been able to tag and fight worst threats than Goku like Ego the Living Planet, Silver Surfer, Sentry and even Galactus. He also has the raw strength to destroy a planet whereas Goku's best striking feats involve destroying mountains and any planetary destruction he could perform being through ki attacks. Those supporting Goku on Comic Vine appear to either be wanking the series or are clueless with how often American comics pull PIS/ CIS with weak showings from powerful characters.

Thor has consistently been shown to be nowhere near fast enough to tag silver surfer, it's for PIS purposes he could tag them, and those were likely classic feats at that. Thor is only light speed+ when taveling due to Mjolnir, over 60% of his showing have him at around Mach 70 or so at fighting speed. And literally damn near everyone said Goku would win. I doubt all of them who see Thor feats on a regular basis and wank superman over all would say Goku would win if he couldn't. Goku also punched a hole through King kais planet while fighting bills(King kais planet is far more dense than the earth thus being more difficult to destroy.

Post by solesamurai (1,250 posts) See mini bio Level 8

@taichokage said:

I've been reading Thor since I was 4. Yes I do read comics. The reason he beats Goku is that he trumps him in every category. Be it strength, durability, stamina, EP, versatility probably speed too. Name any Goku feat in those categories and I can probably top it with a Thor feat.

I'll bite

Speed: Thor needs to be able to fight in high mach hundreds

Strength: Show me current Thor catching a mountain with his bare hands or punching a hole straight through a planet vastly more dense than earth

Durability: Show me him surviving a planetary explosion(if frieza could do it while missing limbs, half dead, and unconscious, goku should be capable of it easily)

What's EP? I assume you mean esp?: If so I'd love to see thor reading minds

Stamina: Show me Thor traveling for 6 months straight then proceeding to train for another 4-5 months

I won't argue versatility.

Post by tronboy (425 posts) See mini bio Level 9

If you can bring in the X-men then Jean or Xavier stomp plus Thor, Hulk, and Ironman

Post by solesamurai (1,250 posts) See mini bio Level 8

@YoungChief said:

@SMXLR8 said:

so what about hulk and ironman?

Massively hypersonic, planet level+ durability, in iron man's case city level DC but he has stuff like nanite hax, hulk is planet level at max rage with crazy ass regen

1. Hulk is nowhere near massively hypersonic wtf.

2. Nor does he have planet+ level durability, he is at best island level the only reasons he survives half the stuff he endures is due to his ridiculous healing factor. it doesn't take much at all to cause hulk pain.

Post by UltimateHero0406 (5,030 posts) See mini bio Level 16

I'm tellin you, Ichigo's plot shield solos. By the time this fighht is over, he will be part Asgardian.

Post by YoungChief (531 posts) See mini bio Level 8

@solesamurai said:

@YoungChief said:

@SMXLR8 said:

so what about hulk and ironman?

Massively hypersonic, planet level+ durability, in iron man's case city level DC but he has stuff like nanite hax, hulk is planet level at max rage with crazy ass regen

1. Hulk is nowhere near massively hypersonic wtf.

2. Nor does he have planet+ level durability, he is at best island level the only reasons he survives half the stuff he endures is due to his ridiculous healing factor. it doesn't take much at all to cause hulk pain.

World War Hulk and Worldbreaker should have planet level, but he's not usually at those levels...Iron man was able to no-sell a nuke at 2 percent power in his shields, they're pretty durable. Hulk has MHS jumping power, not movement speed, should have clarified. Also causing someone pain =/= to defeating them, KOing hulk isn't easy

Post by solesamurai (1,250 posts) See mini bio Level 8

@YoungChief said:

@solesamurai said:

@YoungChief said:

@SMXLR8 said:

so what about hulk and ironman?

Massively hypersonic, planet level+ durability, in iron man's case city level DC but he has stuff like nanite hax, hulk is planet level at max rage with crazy ass regen

1. Hulk is nowhere near massively hypersonic wtf.

2. Nor does he have planet+ level durability, he is at best island level the only reasons he survives half the stuff he endures is due to his ridiculous healing factor. it doesn't take much at all to cause hulk pain.

World War Hulk and Worldbreaker should have planet level, but he's not usually at those levels...Iron man was able to no-sell a nuke at 2 percent power in his shields, they're pretty durable. Hulk has MHS jumping power, not movement speed, should have clarified. Also causing someone pain =/= to defeating them, KOing hulk isn't easy

What you're thinking of is endurance. Hulk can take a crapload of punishment. Endurance and durability are not the same thing. It doesn't take anywhere near planet level destruction to harm the hulk, it just takes attacks on that to defeat him. Like i said his durability isn't that awesome, his endurance and healing factor are what makes him ridiculous. And a Nuke vs a Planet splitting punch is not exactly comparable. Goku would still be able to one shot iron man.

Post by Whats_out_the_bag (1,227 posts) See mini bio Level 10

Why is this continuing? The Avengers win. Goku is the only one who can take on the top guys on the Avengers, but even then he's not beating them.

@solesamurai: I think you guys are getting confused on these words. When we say durability we mean endurance. These words are very close in meaning, but ENDURANCE is for living beings and durability is for nonliving. So Hulk has a huge level of endurance.

Overall Endurance and durability are synonyms to on another.

Post by taichokage (12,645 posts) See mini bio Level 20
No when referring to endurance we mean, literally stamina. How much fatigue or pain a character can handle. Endurance is not the animate version of durability. Also I'm going to be posting some Thor feat links soon.
Post by solesamurai (1,250 posts) See mini bio Level 8

@Whats_out_the_bag said:

Why is this continuing? The Avengers win. Goku is the only one who can take on the top guys on the Avengers, but even then he's not beating them.

@solesamurai: I think you guys are getting confused on these words. When we say durability we mean endurance. These words are very close in meaning, but ENDURANCE is for living beings and durability is for nonliving. So Hulk has a huge level of endurance.

Overall Endurance and durability are synonyms to on another.

You have no idea what you're talking about. Endurance is how much pain you can physically take before it would be to much for you to handle. Durability is how much you can resist damage all together, they are not the same at all. There is only 1 top guy on the avengers and that's thor, everyone else is virtually fodder to goku here save hulk solely based off his healing factor.

Post by DBZ_universe (15,482 posts) See mini bio Level 17

@UltimateHero0406 said:

I'm tellin you, Ichigo's plot shield solos. By the time this fighht is over, he will be part Asgardian.

LOL! Then he reveals he can too go Hulk

Post by Whats_out_the_bag (1,227 posts) See mini bio Level 10

@taichokage: Endurance and Durability are generally the same thing. But one is refering to the ammount of force a living being can take and the other is how much an inanimate object can. I've learned this a long time ago I know what I'm talking about.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/durable

Example provided : <durable goods>

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/endurance

Example provided: <a marathon runner's endurance>

Endurance is also a synonym for stamina, but when used for the fight we like to point them out differently.

Why post feats of Thor, anyone who's read the comics should now the Avengers win this. Goku has around the same durability {Endurance} as the Hulk based on power scaling and doesn't have regeneration. They can take him out.

Post by solesamurai (1,250 posts) See mini bio Level 8

@Whats_out_the_bag said:

@taichokage: Endurance and Durability are generally the same thing. But one is refering to the ammount of force a living being can take and the other is how much an inanimate object can. I've learned this a long time ago I know what I'm talking about.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/durable

Example provided : <durable goods>

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/endurance

Example provided: <a marathon runner's endurance>

Endurance is also a synonym for stamina, but when used for the fight we like to point them out differently.

Why post feats of Thor, anyone who's read the comics should now the Avengers win this. Goku has around the same durability {Endurance} as the Hulk based on power scaling and doesn't have regeneration. They can take him out.

You obviously haven't read DBZ or any comics if you think hulks durability is comparable to goku. Neither does anyone but Hulk have the strength to overload his durability since hulk is the only one with planetary strength feats. And goku doesn't have to be near him to hit him.

Strength: In this video goku fights bills and punches a hole clean through king kais planet without much effort. And before you say "king kais planet is smaller that feat isn't impressive" we know that It has 10x more gravity than earth we also know that

> The greater the amount of matter (mass) something has the more gravitational force it will generate(meaning king kais planet off the bat has at least 10x more mass than Earth)

> Density = mass per unit of volume(with this the density would off the bat be quite a bit more vast than earths since the volume of king kais planet is about the size of a city block)

> If planet A is larger than planet B, but has less gravitational force than planet B, planet B must be more massive, thus being more dense.(With this we know King kais planet is far more dense than the earth meaning it would be harder to destroy)

With that in consideration king kais planet would at the very least be 10x more dense(harder to destroy) Than planet earth itself. That's without even doing any calculations or taking into consideration the mass of king kais planet and it's volume. At the very least Goku's striking power is enough to destroy earth 10x over with 1 hit. No one on the avengers team is surviving a hit of that degree let alone multiple of them.

Goku's durability? Pfft. You remember planet nameks explosion? Well listen to this.

We know Frieza is at the very least planetary durability(planet Namek was much larger than earth so it's likely he's even higher on the durability tier list.) Frieza was cut in half, half dead, unconscious and had just taken an angry blast to the face from goku, not to mention he was smack dab in the middle of planet namek when it exploded. He survived all of that, In fact he didn't even really sustain any damage beyond what was done to him by goku aside from one side of his face being torn up. With this we know frieza is at LEAST planetary durability. When frieza came back to earth to get his revenge, he was killed in mere minutes by trunks. Mecha frieza was apparently stronger than he was when goku fought him on namek, so we know that with that trunks > Namek SSJ Goku. Goku shows up, makes trunks look slow and not very strong in comparison. We can use ABC logic and come to the conclusion Goku has at the very least Planetary+ Durability.

Stamina? Goku ran and flew on snake way for over 6 months straight, he has some damn good stamina.

Endurance? Kid Goku in dragon ball saga was capable of killing piccolo with all but 1 of his limbs broken. He also endure being tortured by android 19 while he was in the midst of having a heart attack during their fight. He not only endured it but fought back for quite a while and was even winning the fight for a little bit before collapsing due to his heart condition.

This is why I believe goku could take thor and anyone else on the avengers team. The only threat is Thor and He doesn't have feats on this level.

Post by Son_Wukong (221 posts) See mini bio Level 7

@solesamurai:This all of my this! :D

Here are some other (more complex calcs) I found regarding Goku punching throgh king kai's planet

It doesn't matter here the dimension of the planet, but the density, since we are talking about a PUNCH, not a Ki blast.

King Kai's planet is not more than 30 meters in diameter (pixels-scaling), but even if it is 40, 50 or 90 meters, the order of magnitude, physically talking, is still the same (i.e. 10).

Now, gravitational force of a planet is given by this formula:

F = (G*M*m)/r^2

G is the universal gravitational constant (6,67*10^-11 [m^3/(kg*s^2)];

M is the mass of the planet

m is the generic reference mass

r is the radius of the planet (or distance between the two masses' centers)

Since King Kai's gravitational force is 10 times the Earth gravitational force, we have Fk (gravitational force of King Kai's planet) 10 times bigger than Fe (Earth's gravity).

Fk/Fe = [(G*Mk*m)/rk^2]/[(G*Me*m)/re^2] = 10

G and m are in commons and go away, so we have:

(Mk/rk^2)/(Me/re^2) = 10

Mass is Volume (V)*Density (D), with Volume (of a generical planet) = (4/3)*π*r^3;

back to the formula:

((4/3)*π*rk^3*Dk)/rk^2 = Fk and ((4/3)*π*re^3*De)/re^2 = Fe, so:

Fk/Fe = (Dk*rk)/(De*re) = 10.

The only unknown term is Dk (density of King Kai's planet), while we know De and re of Earth and rk = 15 meters (assuming a diameter of King Kai's planet of 30 m, as previously said).

So, Dk = 1,17*10^10 kg/m^3, while density of Earth (De) is 5,5153*10^3 kg/m^3, so the density of King Kai's planet is around 2 millions of times higher than the desnity of Earth, and Goku punched a whole hole throughout this material.

The most dense material known is Osmium, which has a density of 22661 kg/m^3, and, because of that, it's also the material which is most resistant to compression (462 GPa).

King Kai's planet is still half a million times more dense than this, and thus even way more resistant to physical compression.

Even if King Kai's planet had the same gravitational force as Earth, the fact it has such a small diameter would still imply a huge density, and indeed, it would still have a density around 200000 times bigger than the density of Earth.

Dou you have some info about that planet destroyed by Gladiator?

Because it could be a planet 2 times bigger than Earth, but 100 times less dense, making this feat pale compared to Goku's striking punch.

Indeed, what really matters when talking about physical punches is the density, and AT, giving us a planet of a few meters of diameter and with a gravitational force 10 times bigger than the one on Earth, is indisputably giving us that previously said enormous level of density.

Imaging taking a cube of 1 meter of each side of the following materials:

- average Sun composition: it would weigh around 1,4 tons;

- average Earth composition: it would weigh around 5,5 tons;

- core of the Sun material: it would weigh 150 tons;

- King Kai's planet material: it would weigh around 10 millions tons;

- Neutron Star material: it would weigh around 280000 billions tons.

Punching the core of the Sun would obviously require inhuman physical strength, regardless of how much matter, in kg, you punch away; even worse would be just trying to physically scratch the surface of a Neutron Star.

Well, a not even bloodlusted Ssj3 Goku actually vaporizes, with one punch, a whole quantity of a material which, according to canon info about King Kai's planet, has thousands of times the density of the core of the Sun.

This is insane, literally insane.

Punching the Earth material for Goku would thus be a joke: for him, it would be like punching air, and the Earth would collapse on itself.

http://www.neoseeker.com/forums/88/t1867660-odin-force-thor-vs-goku-super-saiyan-3/4.htm

Post by taichokage (12,645 posts) See mini bio Level 20
Here. I tried looking for feats especially recent and not classic but to avoid speculation that he may or may not be able to do the same things now. Even though a notable amount of Thor's fears come from classic time, he has many in the last 5-15 years which pretty much all these feats come from. Among the many feats you'll find feats that superscede Goku in several areas such as strength (held a broken moon together with strength alone and welded it back together with his lightning) and a durability feat of tanking a supernova, as well as defeating Hulk on at least 3 occasions including one shotting him. http://www.comicvine.com/forums/gen-discussion-1/current-thor-respect-thread-1480280/
Post by MarioRedfield (1,728 posts) See mini bio Level 11

@UltimateHero0406 said:

I'm tellin you, Ichigo's plot shield solos. By the time this fighht is over, he will be part Asgardian.

I guess he might be an alien instead of a god/demi-god/spirit/ghost dude?

Post by AnimeDefender (2,662 posts) See mini bio Level 12

@Son_Wukong:

Post by taichokage (12,645 posts) See mini bio Level 20
No he's all of them. I'd say the Quincy are distantly related to the Norse given that the Norse are the ancestry of the Germans. Juha Bach is Odin's 3rd son who was a bad apple just like Loki and he tried to overthrow him 2000 years ago and failed and was banished to Earth. After 1000 years he revived, only to be anticipated by the Gotei because Odin told the Spirit King who in turn informed the Royal Gurd down to the Head Captain and he failed again, but before he fell into slumber the second time, one of his children happened to bump into a random Kryptonian and they had a child which was distantly related to the Kurosaki lineage. Years later Ichigo was born. In short he is part Shinigami/Hollow/Quincy/Human/Fullbring/Asguardian and Kryptonian. I forgot to put in the part where his Saiyan and Cybertronian heritage come from.
Post by solesamurai (1,250 posts) See mini bio Level 8

@taichokage said:

Here. I tried looking for feats especially recent and not classic but to avoid speculation that he may or may not be able to do the same things now. Even though a notable amount of Thor's fears come from classic time, he has many in the last 5-15 years which pretty much all these feats come from. Among the many feats you'll find feats that superscede Goku in several areas such as strength (held a broken moon together with strength alone and welded it back together with his lightning) and a durability feat of tanking a supernova, as well as defeating Hulk on at least 3 occasions including one shotting him. http://www.comicvine.com/forums/gen-discussion-1/current-thor-respect-thread-1480280/

Those are the only 2 feats i saw of Thor actually showing he slightly superior(namely the durability feat) Goku still has striking force, stamina, endurance, and although not relevant in this thread speed on Thor. All thor has is brute strength and raw durability based off those feats.

Mandatory Network

Submissions can take several hours to be approved.

Save ChangesCancel