Enuma Elish vs Imagine Breaker

Topic started by Dream on Sept. 10, 2010. Last post by cfatalis 3 years, 11 months ago.
Post by Dream (7,499 posts) See mini bio Level 21
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Can the special attack of Gilgamesh's Ea (Fate//Stay Night) tear through the magic-negating abilities of Touma's Imagine Breaker (A Certain Magical Index)?

Post by Rayleon (461 posts) See mini bio Level 5
@Dream: Enuma Elish works by tearing space and time to create and explosion
even then Ea is still a freakishly powerfull drill sword, one of the only EX ranked phantasm, it will probably tear through Imagine Breaker
Post by MisterShin (2,125 posts) See mini bio Level 14
IB has already broken through time & space before.
Post by Rayleon (461 posts) See mini bio Level 5
@MisterShin: no no
 
it's not the matter of time and space being broken or not
 
Enuma Elish is technique where Ea spins, the spin cause space and time tears, then crap explodes because of the tears
Explosion is not something magical or something that take a psychic to do
Post by MisterShin (2,125 posts) See mini bio Level 14
IB negates all supernatural abilities (like Magic, Psychic & Divine) and has shown to works on non-supernatural attacks that were created by a supernatural power.
e.g. IB has blocked "real/natural" lightning from a thundercloud, thundercloud was summoned by mikoto.
e.g. IB blocked a tsunami made of earth, tsunami off earth was created by accelerator hitting the ground. 
Post by Rayleon (461 posts) See mini bio Level 5
@MisterShin said:
" IB negates all supernatural abilities (like Magic, Psychic & Divine) and has shown to works on non-supernatural attacks that were created by a supernatural power. e.g. IB has blocked "real/natural" lightning from a thundercloud, thundercloud was summoned by mikoto. e.g. IB blocked a tsunami made of earth, tsunami off earth was created by accelerator hitting the ground.  "
For Mikoto, the thing can be argued, her power were static electricity, not summoning rain cloud, the lightning as the by product of the statistical electricity is the abnormal one 
Accelator power is to control "vectors", one can be argued that the tsunami of earth was vector driven, and once IB nulls the vector behinds it it becomes well earth and nothing else
 
in one cases it is arguable that the result itself is abnormal being the same scale and range as Mikoto's power, if her power is to make rainclouds out of nothing then it would be different 
In another the power is actualy still driving the attack, and when the power is nullified the attack becomes useless
 
in Enuma Elish case, we didn't know how it rips space and time by spinning, one could assume Ea was made of special material, it's power is to rip space and time, not to make explosion,if this is Excalibur then IB would have work considering that it is clearly magic, and it's driving power and attack is a sword of light, hardened light, which when touching IB will result in it being a normal sword
Post by MisterShin (2,125 posts) See mini bio Level 14
@Rayleon said:
" @MisterShin said:
" IB negates all supernatural abilities (like Magic, Psychic & Divine) and has shown to works on non-supernatural attacks that were created by a supernatural power. e.g. IB has blocked "real/natural" lightning from a thundercloud, thundercloud was summoned by mikoto. e.g. IB blocked a tsunami made of earth, tsunami off earth was created by accelerator hitting the ground.  "
For Mikoto, the thing can be argued, her power were static electricity, not summoning rain cloud, the lightning as the by product of the statistical electricity is the abnormal one  Accelator power is to control "vectors", one can be argued that the tsunami of earth was vector driven, and once IB nulls the vector behinds it it becomes well earth and nothing else  in one cases it is arguable that the result itself is abnormal being the same scale and range as Mikoto's power, if her power is to make rainclouds out of nothing then it would be different  In another the power is actualy still driving the attack, and when the power is nullified the attack becomes useless  in Enuma Elish case, we didn't know how it rips space and time by spinning, one could assume Ea was made of special material, it's power is to rip space and time, not to make explosion,if this is Excalibur then IB would have work considering that it is clearly magic, and it's driving power and attack is a sword of light, hardened light, which when touching IB will result in it being a normal sword "
Is Ea made of a material that can be found on Earth? 
Is Ea enchanted or blessed?
Im sure IB would be able to block the Space & Time, but im not sure of the explosion?  

Is the explosion caused by the space & time being unstable or something. Or does the explosion always occur with the space & time attack.
e.g. it could be similar to how Accel created a dust explosion.
 
Im really not sure about the explosion he might be able to block it gonna have to read up on that, but Touma has blocked and negated large scale attacks & large scale reality warping. Imagine Breaker also negates stuff like good luck, poor touma.
Post by cfatalis (19,150 posts) See mini bio Level 15
@MisterShin said:

" @Rayleon said:

" @MisterShin said:
" IB negates all supernatural abilities (like Magic, Psychic & Divine) and has shown to works on non-supernatural attacks that were created by a supernatural power. e.g. IB has blocked "real/natural" lightning from a thundercloud, thundercloud was summoned by mikoto. e.g. IB blocked a tsunami made of earth, tsunami off earth was created by accelerator hitting the ground.  "
For Mikoto, the thing can be argued, her power were static electricity, not summoning rain cloud, the lightning as the by product of the statistical electricity is the abnormal one  Accelator power is to control "vectors", one can be argued that the tsunami of earth was vector driven, and once IB nulls the vector behinds it it becomes well earth and nothing else  in one cases it is arguable that the result itself is abnormal being the same scale and range as Mikoto's power, if her power is to make rainclouds out of nothing then it would be different  In another the power is actualy still driving the attack, and when the power is nullified the attack becomes useless  in Enuma Elish case, we didn't know how it rips space and time by spinning, one could assume Ea was made of special material, it's power is to rip space and time, not to make explosion,if this is Excalibur then IB would have work considering that it is clearly magic, and it's driving power and attack is a sword of light, hardened light, which when touching IB will result in it being a normal sword "
Is Ea made of a material that can be found on Earth?  Is Ea enchanted or blessed?Im sure IB would be able to block the Space & Time, but im not sure of the explosion?   Is the explosion caused by the space & time being unstable or something. Or does the explosion always occur with the space & time attack.e.g. it could be similar to how Accel created a dust explosion. Im really not sure about the explosion he might be able to block it gonna have to read up on that, but Touma has blocked and negated large scale attacks & large scale reality warping. Imagine Breaker also negates stuff like good luck, poor touma. "
Ea is probably not of mundane material, it is of divine origin , fitting considering Gil is 3/4 god, yes 3/4 not the usual half
Ea may or maynot enchated or blessed per se, all we are told is how it actually worked
Explosion caused space and time, i have seen three incidence of this happening, it's probably one of the popular way of showing "power" in japan
1. Obviously Ea method of creating the blast
2. how James Huang from project arms uses his power, he rips time to create an explosion much like a hammer(no please don't ask how this work..... this is purely fictional, and to dwell on this probably goes to quantum theory and theoretical physic)
3. Keith Green used the same method , he slashes space and time to rip his opponent apart 
 
Dust explosion occurs in real life, if a room is full of flour and then you threw a lit match in the room it will explode, Accelator probably use his vectoring power to create movement to create friction , which in turn provide the igntion
see here
 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dust_explosion
Post by MisterShin (2,125 posts) See mini bio Level 14
@cfatalis: 
Thank You for you reply.
 
It would seem Ea is of Divine Origin, which makes it possible for IB to work on it. IB has destoryed Divine items with a touch in its verse.
Ea uses Divine power to rip Space & Time and cause an Explosion, i now think Touma can block or negate the attack.
I though Touma could not block the explosion part before, because i though it was created in a sort of "real life" way, like how Accelerator created a dust explosion. But i now see that is not the case.
 
Accel created a dust explosion without using vectors, he threw metal containers which container flour, a spark occured on one of the containers and thus the dust explosion occured. Because the explosion occured in this fasion Imagine Breaker could not block or negate it, since it was not powered by Accel's Vector or any supernatural power.
Post by cfatalis (19,150 posts) See mini bio Level 15
@MisterShin: the things is we didn't know if space and time is broken/ripped what will happen, two series have contemplated on this and they both show the very same effect, which probably means that this is a very common unproven belief
 
you cannot say that the divine power caused this, since we don't even know how it works
IB provide a no limit fallacy , which says any unnatural attacks will fail against imagine breaker, e.g it's not tested on something which make catastropic event when used on full power
i remember reading that when Ea is used with it's full capacity it's capable of ripping the world, infact it's rank is EX Anti World
and apparently after few reading, it return the affected area into the state of creation, aka nothingness, the only other weapon cabale of doing this is capable of killing something without the concept of "death"  
 
in typemoon universe, something without a concept of death cannot be killed EVER, the only thing that can surpasses this is the conceptual weapon which injects concepts or super weapon like Ado Edem and Ea which forces the being into obeying it's memory of "nothingness"
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