Dr Manhattan VS Janemba

Topic started by Goku_The_Hero97 on Jan. 25, 2013. Last post by takashichea 7 months, 1 week ago.
Post by Justalittlegirl (816 posts) See mini bio Level 11

@axavierhansz: That's why we have powerscaling. We can't assume Buu is a universe buster when the best feats in the series are so low.

@Metalslash: Endless and sealed within a barrier. Mutually exclusive. And dividing a universe into four parts isn't problematic. Dividing an infinate universe into four parts is baffling because infinity divided by four equals infinity.

Post by axavierhansz (240 posts) See mini bio Level 8

@Justalittlegirl: Ok so let's go with your powerscaling. What are you powerscaling by? Feats or statements? If we scale by feats then again, Master Roshi > Androids 16-20 because none of them have any destruction feats whatsoever.

Do we scale by the strongest character that they can defeat? Ok so let's take android 18 for example. Android 18 is featless except for the defeat of SSJ Vegeta. So Android 18 > SSJ Vegeta > normal piccolo who is casual moon buster. So now we apply the same logic to Batman holding kryptonite. Batman with kryptonite has no destructive feats. However Batman with kryptonite > Superman > Galaxy buster

So Batman with kryptonite is galaxy buster.

See the problem with not accepting character statements. We know that Batman with kryptonite is NOT a galaxy buster because the only reason he beats Superman is Superman has a weakness to kryptonite. But this weakness is established by STATEMENTS. There is no evidence to suggest that pieces of kryptonite don't hold galaxy busting powers, except for CHARACTER STATEMENTS. If we discount character statements, then powerscaling purely by feats we establish that kryptonite rocks are galaxy busters.

That is why we can't just put a blanket ban on character statements. Some statements that are obviously absurd we obviously exclude, but most of the time we need to accept them.

Post by hitsusatsu11 (10,746 posts) See mini bio Level 20

@Justalittlegirl: idk, aren't some infinities larger than others? For example there are an infinite amount of numbers right, from negative infinity to positive infinity. Now take a subset of numbers, say all even numbers. There are exactly half the amount of even numbers as there are total numbers, yet there are an infinite amount of both even and and total numbers. Interesting stuff anyway

Post by Justalittlegirl (816 posts) See mini bio Level 11

@hitsusatsu11: Nope, they're both the same infinity. The problem is that infinity is purely conceptual and therefore makes no sense, or at least not to non mathematicians like us.

@axavierhansz: First, modern Superman pre 52 is probably only solar system level. Second, that's very specifically a weakness that only affects kryptonians. If it was full on solar system level, all characters of his tier and below would be effected. And it's based off the feat of kryptonite harming Superman. Not everything can be statements or it's like a house with no foundation.

Post by Metalslash (54 posts) See mini bio Level 6

@Justalittlegirl said:

@axavierhansz: That's why we have powerscaling. We can't assume Buu is a universe buster when the best feats in the series are so low.

@Metalslash: Endless and sealed within a barrier. Mutually exclusive. And dividing a universe into four parts isn't problematic. Dividing an infinate universe into four parts is baffling because infinity divided by four equals infinity.

you can't assume ToAA to be omnipotent when his best showing is .........a ..ah......... he don't have any. LOL Mr. satan would destroy him. As i said earlier. they are universe buster cuz its stated and you don't have any proof against it.

NOT actually sealed. Dragonball world is dividen in 3 parts. top one is the world beyond. It consists of kami/kaiou realm, Kingenma realm and hell. Below it there is 2nd part aka the living world which is infinite universe which also possess devil realm. 3rd is Kaioushin realm which orbits around kaiou realm. All of it is explained in Daizenshuu. There is nothing like sealed.

Dividing an infinite space is NOT AT ALL baffling. each of 4 parts = infinity but lesser infinite than universe. Don't you know that infinity is relative. Haven't you rad the chapter LIMITS ? one infinity CAN surpass other infinity.

for example a boundless plane is infinite but a boundless 3D space too is infinite but later can contain infinite number of former. Hence 2nd infinity is INFINITE times bigger than 1st infinity. @hitsusatsu11: too gave a good example but you simply ignored it cuz you are not aware of possibilities of infinity. Just cuz it doesn't makes sense to you doesn't mean that it is wrong. You have to read chapter limits to understand this.

Post by Zerogodlike (1,220 posts) See mini bio Level 11

@Metalslash said:

@Justalittlegirl said:

@axavierhansz: That's why we have powerscaling. We can't assume Buu is a universe buster when the best feats in the series are so low.

@Metalslash: Endless and sealed within a barrier. Mutually exclusive. And dividing a universe into four parts isn't problematic. Dividing an infinate universe into four parts is baffling because infinity divided by four equals infinity.

you can't assume ToAA to be omnipotent when his best showing is .........a ..ah......... he don't have any. LOL Mr. satan would destroy him. As i said earlier. they are universe buster cuz its stated and you don't have any proof against it.

NOT actually sealed. Dragonball world is dividen in 3 parts. top one is the world beyond. It consists of kami/kaiou realm, Kingenma realm and hell. Below it there is 2nd part aka the living world which is infinite universe which also possess devil realm. 3rd is Kaioushin realm which orbits around kaiou realm. All of it is explained in Daizenshuu. There is nothing like sealed.

Dividing an infinite space is NOT AT ALL baffling. each of 4 parts = infinity but lesser infinite than universe. Don't you know that infinity is relative. Haven't you rad the chapter LIMITS ? one infinity CAN surpass other infinity.

for example a boundless plane is infinite but a boundless 3D space too is infinite but later can contain infinite number of former. Hence 2nd infinity is INFINITE times bigger than 1st infinity. @hitsusatsu11: too gave a good example but you simply ignored it cuz you are not aware of possibilities of infinity. Just cuz it doesn't makes sense to you doesn't mean that it is wrong. You have to read chapter limits to understand this.

The TOAA is the writer at the time which means hes omnipotent and knows how the story will end and noone can beat him.

Post by Metalslash (54 posts) See mini bio Level 6

@Zerogodlike: ToAA is nothing but just a fictional character in marvel comics trademarked licensed and copy right protected LOL. He is NO writer. writers are not trademarked.

Post by Justalittlegirl (816 posts) See mini bio Level 11

@Metalslash: I'm saying you can't put an infinite 3d object inside any other 3d object, even if that is also infinite.

Edit- Upon some research on what exactly was said, it turns out that Buu was going to destroy the universe by breaking the barriers between universes, causing the dimensions around it to come in and crush it. That I'll buy, because people of that tier have ripped holes in dimensions and it's not insanely outside of everything else we've seen, because it doesn't take a fixed amount of energy to break these barriers, depending only on the universe.

Post by Metalslash (54 posts) See mini bio Level 6

@Justalittlegirl said:

@Metalslash: I'm saying you can't put an infinite 3d object inside any other 3d object, even if that is also infinite.

Edit- Upon some research on what exactly was said, it turns out that Buu was going to destroy the universe by breaking the barriers between universes, causing the dimensions around it to come in and crush it. That I'll buy, because people of that tier have ripped holes in dimensions and it's not insanely outside of everything else we've seen, because it doesn't take a fixed amount of energy to break these barriers, depending only on the universe.

yes we can. Go read limits. suppose a cube of infinite size. now put 10 such cubes together. Resultant block too in infinite size which is 10 times bigger infinite than previous infinite. both are 3d.

you are talking about anime showing. There is no such thing in manga.

Post by Justalittlegirl (816 posts) See mini bio Level 11

@Metalslash: The part where he yelled his way out of the room of space and time was anime only?

Edit- I looked it up. Him screaming holes through dimensions did happen. What didn't happen was them saying he'd do it, although it's still more plausible than DBZ jumping from planetary (or solar system if you buy other statements) to universe without showing a single thing in between or anything of that level. That's the problem with statements only, you can't really judge much by them.

Post by Metalslash (54 posts) See mini bio Level 6

@Justalittlegirl said:

@Metalslash: The part where he yelled his way out of the room of space and time was anime only?

no but the part where he was ripping hole in reality tearing out universe while fighting against vegeto was in anime only.

Post by Justalittlegirl (816 posts) See mini bio Level 11

@Metalslash: Yeah, I found that. I did notice Vegeta and Goku were pretty convinced Buu would die by simply destroying the earth. Also, the cis of fighting the universe's strongest warriors before destroying everything seems to have stopped applying to kid Buu, considering he tried to blow up the planet without attacking Vegeta and Goku.

Post by Metalslash (54 posts) See mini bio Level 6

@Justalittlegirl said:

@Metalslash: Yeah, I found that. I did notice Vegeta and Goku were pretty convinced Buu would die by simply destroying the earth.

stop making false statements. Vegeta ( who always underestimates his opponent and gets his butt kicked every time ) thought that buu might be destroyed. Goku disagreed to him.

anyways these things means nothing since Buu survived as if it was nothing .

@Justalittlegirl said:

Also, the cis of fighting the universe's strongest warriors before destroying everything seems to have stopped applying to kid Buu, considering he tried to blow up the planet without attacking Vegeta and Goku.

Buu didn't knew anything about them. His memory was erased. He only remembered mr satan a little bit. When vegeta stopped his first attack then he realized that they are powerful

BY THE WAY. What does these things have anything to do with this debate ?

_________________________________

you are pointing out hidden meanings of statements and even making false statements but you are ignorant enough to ignore all the clear universe busting statements, cell's solar system busting statement etc. As a dbz hater you are trying your best to downplay dbz. I don't care if mods consider this as an insult. I simply can't withstand trolls.

I am done here. Buu is universe buster. debate ends.

Post by taichokage (12,879 posts) See mini bio Level 20
Universe busting is taken too far. Bills was stated to be Galaxy level and he is the second strongest character to date. Whis being 50% stronger. How can we possibly accept universe busting powerscaling when the strongest cannon characters are said to be galaxy level and nobody in canon has destroyed more than a planet at a time? I can see scaling to star, multi system or even galaxy level to an extent, but universe level is just so much ridiculously more powerful it's not funny. The observable Universe dwarfs galaxies by a ratio greater than galaxies dwarf stars. And there are hundreds of billions of stars in mid size galaxies and over 99% of galaxies are empty space and dark matter. Now if we are talking Z universe level then maybe. Since it apparently only has 4 galaxies and could be considered a pocket universe, it's quite possible that some characters could take them out if not in one shot then over time.
Post by axavierhansz (240 posts) See mini bio Level 8

@taichokage: Off topic, I wanted to know for personal curiousity, where does it say Whis is 50% stronger than Bills?

Post by taichokage (12,879 posts) See mini bio Level 20
Toriyama said it in a Q&A.; He said that if SSJG Goku were a 6 in power, Bills would be a 10 and Whis would be 15. That would put him at 50% stronger than Bills and 2.5 times stronger than current SSJG Goku.
Post by axavierhansz (240 posts) See mini bio Level 8

@taichokage: Where did you find this Q&A? I am not questioning your sources, but rather I myself have always had a hard time finding these things for DBZ. E.G. I've ready that Toryama once said that SSJ2 Vegeta and Goku's fight produced supernova level energy, but I was never able to find that interview for myself. What keywords do you search for on google, or is there some database of these things?

Post by takashichea (11,673 posts) See mini bio Level 25
Moderator

@Metalslash:

As long as you don't insult the user and only insult the argument and the characters, you should be fine. I'm not a battle person. I'm a wiki mod who only serves as Sonata's assistant. I just respond through the flagging system and through PMs that folks report to me any trouble users. Few days ago, you kept bumping old DBZ vs Comic threads. Folks didn't like that especially for arguments that were old and never ended.

Post by Justalittlegirl (816 posts) See mini bio Level 11

@Metalslash: I'm as tired as this nonsense as you, but I will point one last thing out.

@Metalslash said:

anyways these things means nothing since Buu survived as if it was nothing .

No, he was reduced entirely to dust by the blast and was only saved by his regeneration. He was counting on this but still, not like nothing. Anybody else of the same tier (and some higher, like Gohan) would have and did die.

Post by takashichea (11,673 posts) See mini bio Level 25
Moderator

@Justalittlegirl:

It's okay. You don't need to extend the argument. I was reading your debate and his debates. The guy doesn't have an ounce of etiquette in his arguments no matter how well or how poorly he fights for his argument. His attitude is belligerent.

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