Dr Manhattan VS Janemba

Topic started by Goku_The_Hero97 on Jan. 25, 2013. Last post by takashichea 7 months, 2 weeks ago.
Post by LHWKnight (2,718 posts) See mini bio Level 12

@SMXLR8: spite

Post by Justalittlegirl (843 posts) See mini bio Level 11

@Metalslash: Burden of proof is not on me to prove they can't destroy a universe. It's yours to show he can.

Post by eddz99 (2,509 posts) See mini bio Level 11

@Justalittlegirl: Actually, it is on you since you are the one who is against him, all he did was state his opinion and you were against it :P.

Even i myself think that they can't destroy a universe ( aside from whis tho, he might possibly have the power ).

But, metal provided some valid points.

Post by Metalslash (54 posts) See mini bio Level 6

@Justalittlegirl said:

@Metalslash: Burden of proof is not on me to prove they can't destroy a universe. It's yours to show he can.

Oooo NO. I don't need to show proof cuz i am supporting what is stated. You need to show proof cuz your opposing what is stated.

there is not feat to prove that they are universe buster NOR there is any feat to prove that they are NOT universe buster so feats are neutral hence talking about feats is useless in this case. We have to go by statements.

@eddz99 said:

@Justalittlegirl: all he did was state his opinion and you were against it :P.

It isin't my opinion. i am going by what is stated in manga.

Post by eddz99 (2,509 posts) See mini bio Level 11

@Metalslash: Actually, it is your opinion based on the manga.

Post by Justalittlegirl (843 posts) See mini bio Level 11

@eddz99 said:

@Justalittlegirl: Actually, it is on you since you are the one who is against him, all he did was state his opinion and you were against it :P

Somebody doesn't understand burden of proof. He's the one making a positive statement and therefore must prove it. It is impossible to disprove Buu and others of his level as universe buster, only possible to prove they are.

@Metalslash said:

@Justalittlegirl said:

@Metalslash: Burden of proof is not on me to prove they can't destroy a universe. It's yours to show he can.

Oooo NO. I don't need to show proof cuz i am supporting what is stated. You need to show proof cuz your opposing what is stated.

there is not feat to prove that they are universe buster NOR there is any feat to prove that they are NOT universe buster so feats are neutral hence talking about feats is useless in this case. We have to go by statements.

I'll do my best to show the disparity between these feats and statements although I of course can't disprove it entirely.

Buu destroys Earth. Now, the explosion caused is about the size of a red dwarf if we're being generous. So, one star. Now, the milky way galaxy contains 300 billion stars. We can assume DBZ galaxies are roughly the same size, although there is a lot of variation among them, with some being as small as 10 million or as large as 100 times that of ours. The DBZ universe has four galaxies and two regions of indistinct size (heaven and hell). Buu destroyed so little of the universe that I'm surprised nobody said "wait, that's it?"

Post by ImDictatorBowDown (1,756 posts) See mini bio Level 12

@Justalittlegirl: Are you sure that there is only 4 galaxies? IIRC they Kai's preside over the 4 quadrants of the universe, the quadrants TMK have never specified a size or number of galaxies.

Post by Justalittlegirl (843 posts) See mini bio Level 11

@ImDictatorBowDown: North, South, East, and West galaxies are pretty specifically the only ones.

Post by ImDictatorBowDown (1,756 posts) See mini bio Level 12

@Justalittlegirl: I know it has at least 4 galaxies, however I don't believe it is mentioned anywhere that they are the only ones. Different translations say different things.

Post by Justalittlegirl (843 posts) See mini bio Level 11

@ImDictatorBowDown: They're defined as the four quadrants of the universe.

Post by ImDictatorBowDown (1,756 posts) See mini bio Level 12

@Justalittlegirl: A four galaxy universe .... no wonder there are so many universal threat claims coming from the series.

Post by Metalslash (54 posts) See mini bio Level 6

@Justalittlegirl said:

I'll do my best to show the disparity between these feats and statements although I of course can't disprove it entirely.

Buu destroys Earth. Now, the explosion caused is about the size of a red dwarf if we're being generous. So, one star. Now, the milky way galaxy contains 300 billion stars. We can assume DBZ galaxies are roughly the same size, although there is a lot of variation among them, with some being as small as 10 million or as large as 100 times that of ours. The DBZ universe has four galaxies and two regions of indistinct size (heaven and hell). Buu destroyed so little of the universe that I'm surprised nobody said "wait, that's it?"

I already told you thats cuz of compressing kai. SS3's kamehameha destroyed few rockes but roshi's kamehameha busted moon. If there are inconsistancies then we go by high showings hence they CAN compress ki.

FURTHERMORE I have more exact example and it is directly related to buu, The spirit bomb which destroyed buu caused small destruction in nearby area. Not even city sized blast. But it destroyed buu. And The attack which your saying was about size of red dwarf and did bust planet. but it failed to destroy buu. Why ? again cuz of compressing ki. Size of explosion does NOT give any idea about power of explosion.

FURTHERMORE i can give you example from DC comics. Superman prime tanked an attack from monarch which spread over entire universe BUT the attack was sooooooooooo weak that it couldn't destroy a single planet. It just destroyed lives over all planets.

@Justalittlegirl: @ImDictatorBowDown:

Universe of DBZ is of INFINITE size . Yes there are 4 galaxies but each of them are INFINITELY big having INFINITE number of nebula. Its stated in Daizenshuu. I am quoting it here -

Post by eddz99 (2,509 posts) See mini bio Level 11
@eddz99 said:

@Justalittlegirl: Actually, it is on you since you are the one who is against him, all he did was state his opinion and you were against it :P

Somebody doesn't understand burden of proof. He's the one making a positive statement and therefore must prove it. It is impossible to disprove Buu and others of his level as universe buster, only possible to prove they are.

Actually, he was making a statement with proof, even if it is without proof, you are still very much against it, even if he doesn't give proof, you will still be against it, therefore it is also for you to prove that buu can't do it.

Post by Justalittlegirl (843 posts) See mini bio Level 11

@Metalslash said:

@Justalittlegirl said:

I'll do my best to show the disparity between these feats and statements although I of course can't disprove it entirely.

Buu destroys Earth. Now, the explosion caused is about the size of a red dwarf if we're being generous. So, one star. Now, the milky way galaxy contains 300 billion stars. We can assume DBZ galaxies are roughly the same size, although there is a lot of variation among them, with some being as small as 10 million or as large as 100 times that of ours. The DBZ universe has four galaxies and two regions of indistinct size (heaven and hell). Buu destroyed so little of the universe that I'm surprised nobody said "wait, that's it?"

I already told you thats cuz of compressing kai. SS3's kamehameha destroyed few rockes but roshi's kamehameha busted moon. If there are inconsistancies then we go by high showings hence they CAN compress ki.

Have they ever been actually stated to be able to compress ki?

FURTHERMORE I have more exact example and it is directly related to buu, The spirit bomb which destroyed buu caused small destruction in nearby area. Not even city sized blast. But it destroyed buu. And The attack which your saying was about size of red dwarf and did bust planet. but it failed to destroy buu. Why ? again cuz of compressing ki. Size of explosion does NOT give any idea about power of explosion.

Which is why King Kai was worried that the spirit bomb destroying earth when he first talked about it.

FURTHERMORE i can give you example from DC comics. Superman prime tanked an attack from monarch which spread over entire universe BUT the attack was sooooooooooo weak that it couldn't destroy a single planet. It just destroyed lives over all planets.

I haven't read whatever you're talking about, but the point might have been life wiping rather than pure destruction.

@Justalittlegirl: @ImDictatorBowDown:

Universe of DBZ is of INFINITE size . Yes there are 4 galaxies but each of them are INFINITELY big having INFINITE number of nebula. Its stated in Daizenshuu. I am quoting it here -

And infinite objects existing in the same space and bound within a limited space and also somehow divided into four is utterly baffling and lacks logic entirely, even for DBZ.

Post by Metalslash (54 posts) See mini bio Level 6

@Justalittlegirl said:

@Metalslash said:

@Justalittlegirl said:

I'll do my best to show the disparity between these feats and statements although I of course can't disprove it entirely.

Buu destroys Earth. Now, the explosion caused is about the size of a red dwarf if we're being generous. So, one star. Now, the milky way galaxy contains 300 billion stars. We can assume DBZ galaxies are roughly the same size, although there is a lot of variation among them, with some being as small as 10 million or as large as 100 times that of ours. The DBZ universe has four galaxies and two regions of indistinct size (heaven and hell). Buu destroyed so little of the universe that I'm surprised nobody said "wait, that's it?"

I already told you thats cuz of compressing kai. SS3's kamehameha destroyed few rockes but roshi's kamehameha busted moon. If there are inconsistancies then we go by high showings hence they CAN compress ki.

Have they ever been actually stated to be able to compress ki?

FURTHERMORE I have more exact example and it is directly related to buu, The spirit bomb which destroyed buu caused small destruction in nearby area. Not even city sized blast. But it destroyed buu. And The attack which your saying was about size of red dwarf and did bust planet. but it failed to destroy buu. Why ? again cuz of compressing ki. Size of explosion does NOT give any idea about power of explosion.

Which is why King Kai was worried that the spirit bomb destroying earth when he first talked about it.

FURTHERMORE i can give you example from DC comics. Superman prime tanked an attack from monarch which spread over entire universe BUT the attack was sooooooooooo weak that it couldn't destroy a single planet. It just destroyed lives over all planets.

I haven't read whatever you're talking about, but the point might have been life wiping rather than pure destruction.

@Justalittlegirl: @ImDictatorBowDown:

Universe of DBZ is of INFINITE size . Yes there are 4 galaxies but each of them are INFINITELY big having INFINITE number of nebula. Its stated in Daizenshuu. I am quoting it here -

And infinite objects existing in the same space and bound within a limited space and also somehow divided into four is utterly baffling and lacks logic entirely, even for DBZ.

i don't think you have read it. "Universe - the ENDLESS .........

Post by Justalittlegirl (843 posts) See mini bio Level 11

@Metalslash: I did read it. That's why I'm baffled.

Post by Metalslash (54 posts) See mini bio Level 6

@Justalittlegirl: you din't read it carefully.

@Justalittlegirl said:

And infinite objects existing in the same space and bound within a limited space and also somehow divided into four is utterly baffling and lacks logic entirely, even for DBZ.

untrue. Its clearly stated ENDLESS SPACE. you are saying limited space.

There are 4 infinite sized galaxies each having infinite nebula present in ENDLESS infinite space.

And there is nothing baffling in dividing universe in 4 parts.

Post by hitsusatsu11 (10,746 posts) See mini bio Level 20

Janemba is probably much more powerful, though with Dr. M we know his abillities but we never really know if he's around Herald level, weaker, nigh omnipotent etc in scope of power, we just have no reference of power for him. Sometimes he talks like he's god, yet he wasn't sure he could stop a soviet nuke attack and could have his supposed omnipresence clouded by veidt. If the doc spams bad words he might have a shot at a draw but otherwise they've both got hax abilities but difference in scale of power wins it for janemba.

Post by mangafanVT (165 posts) See mini bio Level 9

exemple vader was a treat to the universe can he universe bust ? no....

Post by axavierhansz (240 posts) See mini bio Level 8

@mangafanVT: Please show a single statement where it was implied that Vader can threaten the EXISTENCE of the entire universe.

Also I've said this again and again: we cannot just have a blanket ban on dbz character statements. No character in the entire Cell Saga has feats that is greater than Roshi moon busting. I guess Master Roshi > Cell Saga Z fighters, SPC, and androids 16-20 because none of them have moon busting or higher feats? In all of cell saga they keep SAYING how strong everyone is but nobody actually busts anything. Yet we know for sure that any of the Cell Saga Z fighters, SPC, and androids 16-20 will roflstomp Roshi.

I'm not saying we should always accept all DBZ character statements without question. But to flatly say that a statement can't be used as proof purely because it's "just a statement" would lead to fallacies such as the one I wrote above. With regards to DBZ character statements we also need to take into account powerscaling and context to see if it's reasonable.

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