Dio Brando runs the Gauntlet

Topic started by CerberusPrime3k on Jan. 21, 2013. Last post by TheVectorPrime 1 year, 10 months ago.
Post by CerberusPrime3k (299 posts) See mini bio Level 8

With out Stand

Round 1

Morbius
Morbius

Round 2

Blade
Blade

Round 3

Luke Cage
Luke Cage

Round 4

Tombstone
Tombstone

Round 5

Spider-man
Spider-man

With Stand

Round 1

Alucard Pre-Scrodinger

Round 2

Goku (Saiyan Saga)

Round 3

Luffy,Naruto,and Ichigo (Current)

Round 4

Dante (DMC3)

Round 5

Sensui and EOS Yusuke

Rules

Fights take place during the night.

Here in Times Square.

Without Stand are random encounters.

They all have their Basic Equipment

With Stand They have knowledge of each others abilities based off Wikipedia

Post by Stingerrain (452 posts) See mini bio Level 10

Even with my limited knowledge of Dio and JJBA in general, i'm pretty damn sure he can clear both gauntlets.

On a side note: why is Saiyan Saga Goku before the Shonen heroes?

Post by TheVectorPrime (269 posts) See mini bio Level 9

Even with time stoping I don't see how can he hurt Goku, Naruto, Luffy, Ichigo, Dante, Sensui and Yusuke and he has nothing to overcome Alucard's regeneration. With knowledge about Stand's power(time stopping) I'm more than sure that they can come up with something and win. Although I was told that World is FTL after reading the manga(part 3 entire and Phnatom Blood up to Ripple teaching) and watching Ovas I disagree with that. And even with World FTL, his stand won't be able to hurt those deal those guys above at best in this case we can have a tie.

Without the Stand i don't see him defeating Luke Cage(possible lose for Dio). And Spidey should give him a good fight.

Post by Kuma_From_Argentina (7,000 posts) See mini bio Level 14

The first guantlet is spite for Dio, he haves powers way beyond weird and beyond most convetional vampires. Morbius is outmatched, so is Blade. Cage could last longer, at least until Dio discovers that there are weakspot of Cage invulnerability, like his insides. Tombstone is dead and buried. Spider-man haves a 50/50 chances.

With Stand is too easy. Time stop, bloodsucking, rinse and repeat. Except that Alucards fucking murders Dio the moment Dio tries to drink his blood, Alucard controls it from inside and fucking murders dio from inside out, not to mention the possiblity of surviving the fight until daybreak, killing dio, but Alucard can survive under daylight, thus game set and match for Vlad Tepes

Post by SpeedForceSpider (5,084 posts) See mini bio Level 15

Spider-Man is the only one that has a shot to win in the first gauntlet. His fast reflexes, mild precognition, Super Strength, and sturdy webbing might can get the job done.

With Za Warudo, he most likely stops at Goku. Mostly due to the latter being able to fire blasts at a planetary level thanks to the Kaioken.

Post by phantomrant (1,498 posts) See mini bio Level 10
W/o Stand he likely clears. He has FTL reactions, supersonic to hypersonic liquid eye beams, and he's stronger than Tarkus who shattered a cliff just by stabbing his sword to the ground. Not to mention regen, blood sucking, mind-controlling spores, and is hard to kill. Only problem is that Dio's movement speed isn't anything particular. He might stop at Parker. With The World: They're screwed. I see that ppl are forgetting that Dio has blood freezing hax which bypasses durability. Timestop spam + blood freezing ----> Dio wins. For goku, it depends on the distance. If it's significantly high, then goku gets off a ki blast.
Post by Fehafare (9,641 posts) See mini bio Level 13

He should clear both. Round 1 doesn't have that many impressive opponents for him and for round 2 Stand is overkill.

Post by TheVectorPrime (269 posts) See mini bio Level 9

@Fehafare said:

He should clear both. Round 1 doesn't have that many impressive opponents for him and for round 2 Stand is overkill.

The World has effective radius of 10 meters. Although timestop is supossed to be universal World will be useless if opponents are 100m away.@phantomrant said:

W/o Stand he likely clears. He has FTL reactions, supersonic to hypersonic liquid eye beams, and he's stronger than Tarkus who shattered a cliff just by stabbing his sword to the ground. Not to mention regen, blood sucking, mind-controlling spores, and is hard to kill. Only problem is that Dio's movement speed isn't anything particular. He might stop at Parker.



With The World: They're screwed. I see that ppl are forgetting that Dio has blood freezing hax which bypasses durability. Timestop spam + blood freezing ----> Dio wins. For goku, it depends on the distance. If it's significantly high, then goku gets off a ki blast.

Blood freezing can't help him. Dio lacks the strength and speed himself to fight opponents in second round. OBD is basing Dio's strength from Tarkus. But point is that Tarkus is physicly strongest character to appear in entire Jojo's Bizzare Adventure manga so far. After Phantom Blood physical strength is putting aside to more exotic abilities. Physicly strongest characters are Riple users and Tarkus. Anyway Stand users are superior to Riple users, thanks to their hax abilities but inferior in physical strength, even with Stands (based on feats).@Kuma_From_Argentina said:

The first guantlet is spite for Dio, he haves powers way beyond weird and beyond most convetional vampires. Morbius is outmatched, so is Blade. Cage could last longer, at least until Dio discovers that there are weakspot of Cage invulnerability, like his insides. Tombstone is dead and buried. Spider-man haves a 50/50 chances.

With Stand is too easy. Time stop, bloodsucking, rinse and repeat. Except that Alucards fucking murders Dio the moment Dio tries to drink his blood, Alucard controls it from inside and fucking murders dio from inside out, not to mention the possiblity of surviving the fight until daybreak, killing dio, but Alucard can survive under daylight, thus game set and match for Vlad Tepes

Like I said Dio lacks the strength and speed to hurt guys in fights with Stand. With World is debatable for some guys (like Dante and Alucard) but only if they are up to 10m distance from him. The best he can do is delay his defeat with several timestops.

Overall if he manages to overcome Alucard somehow he is definately stopping at Goku (who is the most powerful and yet put second). I repeat I don't see him winning against guys who suppose to fight him with Stand. At best he can tie with some of them. Seriously you guys are overestimating Dio.

Post by phantomrant (1,498 posts) See mini bio Level 10

@TheVectorPrime said:

Blood freezing can't help him. Dio lacks the strength and speed himself to fight opponents in second round. OBD is basing Dio's strength from Tarkus. But point is that Tarkus is physicly strongest character to appear in entire Jojo's Bizzare Adventure manga so far. After Phantom Blood physical strength is putting aside to more exotic abilities. Physicly strongest characters are Riple users and Tarkus. Anyway Stand users are superior to Riple users, thanks to their hax abilities but inferior in physical strength, even with Stands (based on feats).

He doesn't lack anything at all. He has all the advantages. Speed is useless as his reactions are much, much, much faster than their speed. Therefore, he's able to initiate a timestop before they can even move. Dio was shown to leap from building to building and fly across city blocks. If they're fighting in Time Squares, so long as the distance isn't anything crazy, he's going to cross it before their opponent can even do anything notable. That's the massive difference between their movement speed (which is like what, double-digit hypersonic?) and Dio's reactions. Furthermore, Dio's main advantage in any battle he's in is spamming those timestops. He can stop time however much he wants. The time limit also increases the more he uses it ever since he absorbed Joseph's blood, unless the OP states that it's pre-joseph.

That said, he crosses the distance while time is stopped, put his hand on them for 2 seconds, vaporizes their body fluids, and voila. They're frozen from the inside and the outside. Unless they have shown resistance to that, Dio wins.

We see Jonathan stomping Tarkus in physical hand-to-hand combat after he receives Zeppeli's Ripple, therefore he's stronger than Tarkus physically. Later, it's shown multiple times that Dio was able to match Jonathan's blows in their fight, and subdued him. In fact, it took Zeppeli's Ripple just to put Jonathan at a level where he can combat Dio. It doesn't matter that Dio can't cause AoE/environmental damage with strikes despite the fact Tarkus can even though Dio is clearly stronger than him physically. The power of his strikes are still above the power of Tarkus's strikes.

Post by TheVectorPrime (269 posts) See mini bio Level 9

@phantomrant said:

@TheVectorPrime said:

Blood freezing can't help him. Dio lacks the strength and speed himself to fight opponents in second round. OBD is basing Dio's strength from Tarkus. But point is that Tarkus is physicly strongest character to appear in entire Jojo's Bizzare Adventure manga so far. After Phantom Blood physical strength is putting aside to more exotic abilities. Physicly strongest characters are Riple users and Tarkus. Anyway Stand users are superior to Riple users, thanks to their hax abilities but inferior in physical strength, even with Stands (based on feats).

He doesn't lack anything at all. He has all the advantages. Speed is useless as his reactions are much, much, much faster than their speed. Therefore, he's able to initiate a timestop before they can even move. Dio was shown to leap from building to building and fly across city blocks. If they're fighting in Time Squares, so long as the distance isn't anything crazy, he's going to cross it before their opponent can even do anything notable. That's the massive difference between their movement speed (which is like what, double-digit hypersonic?) and Dio's reactions. Furthermore, Dio's main advantage in any battle he's in is spamming those timestops. He can stop time however much he wants. The time limit also increases the more he uses it ever since he absorbed Joseph's blood, unless the OP states that it's pre-joseph.

That said, he crosses the distance while time is stopped, put his hand on them for 2 seconds, vaporizes their body fluids, and voila. They're frozen from the inside and the outside. Unless they have shown resistance to that, Dio wins.

We see Jonathan stomping Tarkus in physical hand-to-hand combat after he receives Zeppeli's Ripple, therefore he's stronger than Tarkus physically. Later, it's shown multiple times that Dio was able to match Jonathan's blows in their fight, and subdued him. In fact, it took Zeppeli's Ripple just to put Jonathan at a level where he can combat Dio. It doesn't matter that Dio can't cause AoE/environmental damage with strikes despite the fact Tarkus can even though Dio is clearly stronger than him physically. The power of his strikes are still above the power of Tarkus's strikes.

Yes he does. Just tell me were did you get the info that Dio is has reactions much, much greater than them ??? That thing you stated only confirms that you havent read the manga. Now let me explain some things to you.

- In Phantom Blood (Part 1) Dio was stunned by a gun shot. Keep in mind that this was Victorian England and gun muzzles were all sub sonic. So that tells us that his reactions were less than sub sonic muzzle (now where near what you claim). Also tells us about his durability. He was stunned by that same shot. For comparison Green Goblin was able to tank Magnum 44 round point blank. In other word Dio's physical stats is at street level in Part 1. In Part 3 his physical stats hasn't changed at all. His feats confirm that . Only this time he has a Stand

- Dio was only shown to leap from building to building when he chased Joseph in Cairo. Spiderman can do that even better.

- his eye liquid was stated to be powerful enough to slice stone. Everyone in second gauntlet have durability much greater than that (even Alucard)

- Like I said his freezing ability will be inneffective against those guys, i thought that you've red the manga so i didn't bothered explaining. But now I'll explain. Before Jonathan started learning Riple Dio frozen his arm when they clashed in the mansion. Jonathan was 195cm (6'5'') tall regular human with athletic/olympic level of strength. And he endured it pretty easily without any consequences. Guys in the second gauntlet are so much above humans and peak humans that it isn't worth comparing (especially Goku).

- Jonathan defeat Tarkus thanks to the fact that Riple is based on Sun rays energy and Sun is leathal to Vampires. First he sliced his arm thanks to the Riple property and than he deliver lethal punches.And only because of the Riple properties they were effective. And about Jonathan vs Dio. Dio never matched him physicly like you say. When they fought for second time. Jonathan than sliced him with sword and proced to deliver Riple powered blows and kick. But Dio forze his legs and arms in order to prevent Riple effect (it requires sun light or heat ...). And when Jonathan burned his fists he defeat Dio because he was able to channle the Riple. reread part 40 Fire and Ice and see that I'm right : http://www.mangarush.com/manga/jojo39s-bizarre-adventure/40/p-1. By the way it impossible for Dio to be stronger than Tarkus, because even beofre becoming a vampire, Tarkus was strong enough to endure several axe slashes in his neck. Axes were even broken in the proces. So even before he became vampire he was superhuman. Dio was regular human. Not to mention that even the strongest Pillar Man Wammu has inferior feat to that of Tarkus. And Pillar Men were stated to be above vampires as vampires are above humans (considering entire power set).

- At the end of Part 3 when Dio has greatest control over The World he is only able to stop time for 9 seconds maximum(so your argument about time stop falls in water) and than has to wait some time in order to do it again. Any of the characters in second gauntlet can rip him to shreads before he even says "Za Warudo" or "Time Stop" as pronaunced in original and English dub.

As you see Dio is given too much credit here. He won't be able to win a single round in second Gauntlet. At best he could possible stealmate Dante(I don't have up to date knowledge about dante so I could be wrong about stealmate, since i was told that recent incarnations of Dante are much more powerful), but too bad he won't even pass Alucard, who is literly going to rape both him and the World, like he did to Rip Van Winkle.

Post by phantomrant (1,498 posts) See mini bio Level 10

@TheVectorPrime said:

Yes he does. Just tell me were did you get the info that Dio is has reactions much, much greater than them ??? That thing you stated only confirms that you havent read the manga. Now let me explain some things to you.

Oh god.....

In Phantom Blood (Part 1) Dio was stunned by a gun shot. Keep in mind that this was Victorian England and gun muzzles were all sub sonic. So that tells us that his reactions were less than sub sonic muzzle (now where near what you claim). Also tells us about his durability. He was stunned by that same shot. For comparison Green Goblin was able to tank Magnum 44 round point blank. In other word Dio's physical stats is at street level in Part 1. In Part 3 his physical stats hasn't changed at all. His feats confirm that . Only this time he has a Stand

Already your argument is falling apart the moment I read the first sentence. The reaction level skyrocketed in part 3 compared to part 1. Hell, the reactions skyrocketed in part 2 compared to part 1.

I see that your analysis of the manga is cut short. There's a massive power difference between newly vampirized part 1 Dio and Part 1 Dio fighting Jonathan in Windknights. Anyone who read the manga or watched the anime can tell this. At this time, I won't even bother arguing for what chapter 13 dio's reactions and durability are, as they're completely irrelevant to my argument.

Dio was only shown to leap from building to building when he chased Joseph in Cairo. Spiderman can do that even better.

So?

- his eye liquid was stated to be powerful enough to slice stone. Everyone in second gauntlet have durability much greater than that (even Alucard)

Their durability is higher than a thin, concentrated, pressurized supersonic water beam that sliced through stone? Prove it.

Alucard has terrible durability. Best we can get for him is "wall level" for crash damage.

Like I said his freezing ability will be inneffective against those guys, i thought that you've red the manga so i didn't bothered explaining. But now I'll explain. Before Jonathan started learning Riple Dio frozen his arm when they clashed in the mansion. Jonathan was 195cm (6'5'') tall regular human with athletic/olympic level of strength. And he endured it pretty easily without any consequences. Guys in the second gauntlet are so much above humans and peak humans that it isn't worth comparing (especially Goku)

What is this? What kind of argument are you making? I see that you have no comprehension on the fact that blood freezing bypasses durability. It doesn't matter what 'tier" of a human you are. It doesn't matter what physical stats you have. All that matters is the size of the body and none of them are significantly bigger than a huge guy like Jonathan.

One more thing, he only started to show his blood freezing AFTER Jonathan had Ripple training, specifically when he froze ZEPPELI'S ARM. Read the manga before you accuse of others of making up shit.

Jonathan defeat Tarkus thanks to the fact that Riple is based on Sun rays energy and Sun is leathal to Vampires. First he sliced his arm thanks to the Riple property and than he deliver lethal punches.And only because of the Riple properties they were effective. And about Jonathan vs Dio. Dio never matched him physicly like you say. When they fought for second time. Jonathan than sliced him with sword and proced to deliver Riple powered blows and kick. But Dio forze his legs and arms in order to prevent Riple effect (it requires sun light or heat ...). And when Jonathan burned his fists he defeat Dio because he was able to channle the Riple. reread part 40 Fire and Ice and see that I'm right : http://www.mangarush.com/manga/jojo39s-bizarre-adventure/40/p-1. By the way it impossible for Dio to be stronger than Tarkus, because even beofre becoming a vampire, Tarkus was strong enough to endure several axe slashes in his neck. Axes were even broken in the proces. So even before he became vampire he was superhuman. Dio was regular human. Not to mention that even the strongest Pillar Man Wammu has inferior feat to that of Tarkus. And Pillar Men were stated to be above vampires as vampires are above humans (considering entire power set).

Since we seem to use the same manga site for reading JJBA: http://www.mangarush.com/manga/jojo39s-bizarre-adventure/35/p-6

Clear-cut proof that Jonathan is stronger than Tarkus.

http://www.mangarush.com/manga/jojo39s-bizarre-adventure/35/p-8

Jonathan casually stopped a punch from Tarkus. And let's say that Jonathan did use the Ripple to burn through Tarkus's arm. He still physically overpowered, shown as he fisted Tarkus's head and threw him over him 3 pages later, something that required pure physical strength.

Dio matched his knee strikes. Dio stopped an all-out double fist attack from Jonathan. The only reason why it slipped through was because of the fire and the Ripple. Dio's strength is the same as Jonathan. He's stronger than Tarkus.

Incorrect logic. Tarkus was a zombie. A zombie for Dio, whose vampiric powers rose ever since the last time he fought Jonathan. Dio dished out Tarkus to Jonathan, because he thought he was too weak to beat him. Therefore, zombified Tarkus is weaker than Vampire Dio. There's no way Tarkus is stronger than Dio in anyway.

Uh, the Pillar Men having inferior feats to Tarkus? The Pillar Men are superior to Tarkus. Tarkus is nowhere near the physically strongest fighter in the series. All this means is that the strength of the Pillar Men are concentrated within their fists, and they do not cause massive AoE damage. All you're nitpicking at are inconsistencies. Nothing more, nothing less.

At the end of Part 3 when Dio has greatest control over The World he is only able to stop time for 9 seconds maximum(so your argument about time stop falls in water) and than has to wait some time in order to do it again. Any of the characters in second gauntlet can rip him to shreads before he even says "Za Warudo" or "Time Stop" as pronaunced in original and English dub.

You must be kidding me...

http://www.mangarush.com/manga/jojo39s-bizarre-adventure/255/p-14

http://www.mangarush.com/manga/jojo39s-bizarre-adventure/255/p-15

Ever since he had Joseph's blood, his time limit was constantly increasing the more he used it. There is no "he can stop time for ONLY 9 seconds" business. If it was only 9 seconds, he wouldn't be after the Joestar bloodline.

There is no time interval. It's just Dio allowing the timestop effects to take damage on them. A bloodlusted Dio (such as in this case) will never allow respite.

Except he doesn't have to say "Za Warudo"......

As you see Dio is given too much credit here.

Enough with the downplay, please.

but too bad he won't even pass Alucard, who is literly going to rape both him and the World, like he did to Rip Van Winkle.

So... you have no real argument for Alucard other than "Alucard rapes cuz i say so"

Okay. Timestop + blood freeze. Unless this is omnipresent Alucard, Alucard has no way of getting out of that. Doesn't matter how many lives he has or how many lives he has unleashed.

I highly doubt YOU have even properly analyzed the manga. For info on FTL stands, visit this thread:

http://www.animevice.com/forums/battles/33/goku-post-saiyan-saga-vs-dio-brando/201226/?page=1#div_shout_post_586624

Guess what. Dio actually perceiving the fight and telling which of the Stands are faster equates to FTL reactions. Also powerscaling from Vanilla Ice, Part 2 Joseph/Caesar.

Good day to you.

Post by TheVectorPrime (269 posts) See mini bio Level 9

@phantomrant: Dude, you're just biased and you don't know what are you talking about.

- Reactions skyrocketed in part 3 thanks to Stands. Dio without the stand has the same reactions as in part 1. He was resurected after 100 + years. IT WASN'T STATED THAT HE HAS GROWN MORE POWERFUL (REFERING TO HIM WITHOUT THE STAND) nore he could since he was "basicly in coma" for all that time.

- During Phantom Blood he doesn't become exponentialy more powerful. That claim simply proves how biased you are. At best we can say that he only became more skilled with his vampire powers. But his power set and physical stats is the same in Phantom Blood. And is the same in Part 3. Except this time he can create parasites from his hair and has a Stand.

- Ok you prove that their durability is lesser than the same beam ! Oh wait, how can yo compare ''durability" to "concetrated, pressuraized (PROVE THAT IT IS SUPERSONIC) beam" :-) . Beams DON'T HAVE DURABILITY :-) .Did you refere to comparing durability to stone ? That would be more logical or wanted me to prove that their durability would alow them to endure Dio's beam. Next time you should think twice before posting :-) > By the way to end this confusion I'll answer to you. The hardest thing so far Dio beam's cut is stone. And since it was shown/stated you can't claim that Dio's beams for example can cut through diamond. That would simply be and asunmption (without anything to base it on) and asumptions without evidance are useless. Everyone in gauntlet 2 have durabilty far above stone. Yes the same can be said for Alucard. Contrary to what you say, Alucard swallowed hypersonic bullet of Rip Van Winkle, which was able to totaly devastate SR-71 Blackbird, which is 85% made of titanium http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lockheed_SR-71_Blackbird . And the same bullet did inflict internal damage to his cheek, but was unable to penetrate his cheek. Alucard being ripped apart by bullets indicates that those are silver bullets (anythying other than that would actually be useless againts vampire in Hellsing so that furthere proves my argument) and Anderson't bayonetts are also made of holy silver. So you see you're asumption was very wrong. Oh by the way if you disagree with this, than go try to prove that rock is more durable than Goku, Ichigo, Luffy... Good luck in that case :-) .

- Show me the scan which stated "BLOOD FREZZING BYPASSES DURABILITY" . I repeat if it only managed to "slow down" athletic human Jonathan it will be useless to uber powerfull guys in gauntlet 2. denying this obvious fact only proves that you're biased.

- I already analyzed that scan. He didn't stoped the punch. Stopping punch is waht Vegeta did to Frieza when they fought on Namek for the first time, for example. I mentioned that Jonathan sliced his arm. But like I said that was thanks to Riple properties. Damaged done to the Tarkus's head is more likely because of the Riple. This confirms my point http://www.mangarush.com/manga/jojo39s-bizarre-adventure/35/p-12, Tarkus body being vaporized. and throwing Tarkus is thanks to Jonathan's strength, although little inconstianance for human strength if you ask me. Since regular human should not be able to throw even small human like that. Anyway that's anime effect, and we have Jonathan throwing like that several guys when he and Dio are playing rugby for university and feat is far inferior to Tarkus destrpying large amount of rock.

- Zombie is synonim to vampire in part 1. By the Tarkus had fangs and is different from Page, Plant, Bonam... Difference between zombies (lesser undead created without Stone Mask) become prominent in later parts of the manga. Like i said his strength feat was the greatest strength feat in entire manga. Even Stands have lesser strenght feats, although I haven't compare Tarkus to them.

Also don't put words in my mouth. By saying stronger, I didn't mean that Tarkus is more powerful than Dio, and Pillar Men. I was simply refering to physical strength (Tarkus was a simple brute). He only had his strength augumented while Dio and Pillar Men had far more exotic abilities, which would alow them and rather easy win in fight with Tarkus. And if you check NAruto Forums you will also see that common opinion is that Tarkus is the strongest vampire/character in entire manga (this exludes the Stands). That doesn't mean that I won't you to subdue to that opinion or that I think because i was told so by them. Point is that prior to become zombie/vampire Tarkus already had strength on par if not greater than vampires made by Stone Mask. They shattered several axes on his neck when they atempted to behead him, and a hobo - turned vampire by Dio with Stone Mask was able to extremly damage th wall, but in the process he completly destroyed his fist. And when that happens Dio concludes that vampires don't aquire proportional increse in durability. In other words they keep their human durability. This confirms that DIO HAS VERY LOW DURABILITY and can partly explain also why Jonathan shattered Tarkus's head (althouhg thanks to riple is far more likely). Anyway back to strength. Transformation increses strength so Tarkus strength was increased when he transformed into zombie/vampire. It is proportional far every zombie/vampire. And that mean Tarkus will have more strength than human Dio( who was weaker than Tarkus in human form).

- If you reread my previous post, you can see that I stated at THE END OF THE PART 3 (refering to to increase in time stopping during entire Part 3). The longest seen so far in manga is 9 seconds, shortly after that Dio died. So we can't use more than that unless OP specificly stated for example that he alows 1 minute time stop or more. Kapish ? Anything above those 9 seconds is what Dio could potentially achive. And we deal here with WHAT WAS SHOWN and not with WHAT MIGHT HAVE HAPPEND OR BE SHOWN. The world shown that he can stop it for 9 seconds max so that the upper limit until OP states othervise. By the way Dio can't hurt anyone in Gauntlet 2. He lacks the offensive power to do that. And The World hasn't shown anything above street level of attacking power. And I repeat before he says Za Warudo he will be mutilated. As shown in manga and especially in OVA's he says Za Warudo in the same amount of time the regular human would say. That's about 1 second (say Za Warudo by yourself and see how long it takes). Guys in Gaunlet 2 can do many things in 1 second.

- No you don't have any real argument for Dio and you just keep repeating the same thing over and over.

- Alucard is much faster than Dio. And after aproximately 27 seconds from Alucard vs Dio round 1, Dio's body will be ripped apart by Rip Van Winkle's bullet and Tubalcaine Alhambra's cards. That's one real argument :-) .

- Gimme a break about FTL. First of all. FTL speed for Stands comes from powerscailing of Star Platinum. In that thread you can see some users posting scans from Jojo's Bizarred Adventure databook. Interesting thing is that info about stands came in Part 6, and yet the stands first appear in part 3. By the way statement that Star Platinum is FTL is rather stupid since so far the best speed he shown is catching a bullet. What's even more interesting whan user on Naruto Forums claimed that scan was fan edited. Furthere it contradicts what has been shown in Part 6 during Manhattn Transfer. Also in Part 4 it was shown that there is limit to how powerful attack Star Platinum can stop. And it really doesn't matter if he is FTL or not he isn't stopping something on par or above building buster like (Sheer Heart Attack of Kira ). Anyway Star Platinum beinf FTL or ligth speed wasn't stated in manga. And especially not in part 3 . So far the only Stand in part 3 which has light speed movement (not reactions) is The Hanged Man. And only Silver Chariot could match him which contradicts with Star Platinum being FTL since Silver Chariot was shown to be faster. Also Sivler Chariot was able to stab The Hanged Man only because The Hanged Man was cornered in only possible coin. Also I repeat that Hanged Man can only move at light speed he can't react no where near it.

- so what if Dio followed Stand figth ? That's lame argument, not to mention that non of the Stands in pArt 3 should have even ligth speed movement (except for Hanged man). Even Joseph Joestar was able to do the same, and he has regular human reactions. And don't come with Cars feat in part 2 since it was an outlier. Author didn't think that UV light beam can travel at speed of light. So you can't powerscale Joseph reactions from that. Also Joseph wasn't able to track Esidisi(or was it Wammu, I can't remember right now and I'm too lazy to look in the manga for it) escaping feat (the one when he twists his body), so that indicates that Joseph is unable to track even supersonic speeds. Which furthere confirms that Stands in part 3 can't be FTL. And even being FTL won't change anything at all since nor Dio (street level) nor World (building buster) can hurt anyone in Gauntlet 2 , except for Alucard (only in case of World).

Post by phantomrant (1,498 posts) See mini bio Level 10

@TheVectorPrime said:

@phantomrant: Dude, you're just biased and you don't know what are you talking about.

- Reactions skyrocketed in part 3 thanks to Stands. Dio without the stand has the same reactions as in part 1. He was resurected after 100 + years. IT WASN'T STATED THAT HE HAS GROWN MORE POWERFUL (REFERING TO HIM WITHOUT THE STAND) nore he could since he was "basicly in coma" for all that time.

You're making no sense. His reactions are much higher because Araki gave him better feats. That's all there is to it. Why does it need to be stated that his base stats are greater, when he's been shown to have better base stats (specifically, reaction speed) through speed. Even Ripple users like Caesar and Joseph have FTL reaction feats. Said Ripple users that Dio can match in every combat stat.

Restricting stands =/= removing it from them and reverting the user back to a state if they did not had it. Dio who did not use his Stand showed FTL reaction feats in Part 3. You have no proof that by removing the Stand, reactions significantly drop anyway.

During Phantom Blood he doesn't become exponentialy more powerful. That claim simply proves how biased you are. At best we can say that he only became more skilled with his vampire powers. But his power set and physical stats is the same in Phantom Blood. And is the same in Part 3. Except this time he can create parasites from his hair and has a Stand.

He does become massively more powerful. As shown that he's above Jonathan with Zeppeli's Ripple (who can stomp newly vampirized Dio and people far above Dio at that point) and the only reason he lost was as Straights stated. Honestly, you must not have read the manga if you couldn't even figure this out. Newly vampirized Dio was defeated by a NEWBIE Jonathan. It took Jonathan two upgrades in power just to take him on after Dio took in the blood of countless people. Not to mention the fact that Dio developed new powers.

Ok you prove that their durability is lesser than the same beam ! Oh wait, how can yo compare ''durability" to "concetrated, pressuraized (PROVE THAT IT IS SUPERSONIC) beam" :-) . Beams DON'T HAVE DURABILITY :-) .Did you refere to comparing durability to stone ? That would be more logical or wanted me to prove that their durability would alow them to endure Dio's beam. Next time you should think twice before posting :-) > By the way to end this confusion I'll answer to you. The hardest thing so far Dio beam's cut is stone. And since it was shown/stated you can't claim that Dio's beams for example can cut through diamond. That would simply be and asunmption (without anything to base it on) and asumptions without evidance are useless. Everyone in gauntlet 2 have durabilty far above stone. Yes the same can be said for Alucard. Contrary to what you say, Alucard swallowed hypersonic bullet of Rip Van Winkle, which was able to totaly devastate SR-71 Blackbird, which is 85% made of titanium http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lockheed_SR-71_Blackbird . And the same bullet did inflict internal damage to his cheek, but was unable to penetrate his cheek. Alucard being ripped apart by bullets indicates that those are silver bullets (anythying other than that would actually be useless againts vampire in Hellsing so that furthere proves my argument) and Anderson't bayonetts are also made of holy silver. So you see you're asumption was very wrong. Oh by the way if you disagree with this, than go try to prove that rock is more durable than Goku, Ichigo, Luffy... Good luck in that case :-) .

Burden of Proof is on YOU. It's your argument that they can tank Space Ripper Stingy Eyes, YOU prove it. Don't tell me to freaking prove your argument. http://science.howstuffworks.com/environmental/energy/question553.htm (Water projectiles that can cut through stone are mach 3).

Oh my god.... What are you on about? I never said anything about a beam's durability. I said prove that each point on every character's body is much harder than stone (for it's necessary to defend against a concentrated liquid beam attack), or accept that they can sniped down by the Space Ripper Stingy Eyes. It's your misinterpretation. Not my wording. I really don't know why you even mentioned an alternative when you understood what I meant.

Where's the evidence that I asked for regarding each character's durability? Unless you have proven that each character's body is far harder than stone, and than the pressure of a liquid beam won't melt through them, you're going nowhere. Oh.... you're completely wrong. Alucard STOPPED the bullet, he didn't swallow it. he caught it in his teeth, which has nothing to do with his body durability. Especially since he gets riddled by bullets. All you've proven is that Alucard has high teeth strength. Not to mention the Space Ripper Stingy eyes have cut through metal before. The material of the swords... has nothing to do with Alucard's durability. It only proves Alucard's endurance and that he has low vulnerability to generic vampiric weakness, as it's been established within the Hellsing franchise. You have no argument.

Now... why would I prove that scenario 2 characters are far more durable than rock when I didn't even mention anything about the Space Ripper Stingy Eyes on them? You're provoking an argument I've never made.

Show me the scan which stated "BLOOD FREZZING BYPASSES DURABILITY" . I repeat if it only managed to "slow down" athletic human Jonathan it will be useless to uber powerfull guys in gauntlet 2. denying this obvious fact only proves that you're biased.

You're new to battle debate. It's pretty obvious if you need statements that directly say that a hax ability can bypass durability when almost all hax abilities that bypass durability don't have a statement, they show they bypass durability. And just calling me bias when you have misinterpretated/inproperly analyzed feats and their capabilities isn't helping you at all. Either prove scenario 2 characters have resistance to having their blood frozen upon contact, or concede.

I already analyzed that scan. He didn't stoped the punch. Stopping punch is waht Vegeta did to Frieza when they fought on Namek for the first time, for example. I mentioned that Jonathan sliced his arm. But like I said that was thanks to Riple properties. Damaged done to the Tarkus's head is more likely because of the Riple. This confirms my point http://www.mangarush.com/manga/jojo39s-bizarre-adventure/35/p-12, Tarkus body being vaporized. and throwing Tarkus is thanks to Jonathan's strength, although little inconstianance for human strength if you ask me. Since regular human should not be able to throw even small human like that. Anyway that's anime effect, and we have Jonathan throwing like that several guys when he and Dio are playing rugby for university and feat is far inferior to Tarkus destrpying large amount of rock.

You didn't analyze shit. He stopped the punch. Tarkus flinged his chain at his shoulder. THEN he sliced his arm. Guess you read manga from left to right? Don't know why you compared that scene to DBZ. Pointless.

Jonathan has been seen exerting his strength over Tarkus twice. First time when he lifted him up to the ceiling (which was what Tarkus did to Jonathan earlier). The next is him using his superior strength (compared to Tarkus) by throwing him over. I don't know why you're still debating Jonathan's strength when the first scan I showed you regarding it outright proves it (and you have yet to contradict it).

What are you talking about? First off, Jonathan is a superhuman with superhuman strength (specifically, building to large building striking strength). I see that your logic here is a little messed-up. Second, It's a manga feat, not an anime effect.

I see you still don't understand how AoE =/= attack power. Jonathan overpowered him. Jonathan has been shown to be stronger than him. He doesn't need to destroy large amounts of precious rock just to prove his strength is on the same level as Tarkus's.

- Zombie is synonim to vampire in part 1. By the Tarkus had fangs and is different from Page, Plant, Bonam... Difference between zombies (lesser undead created without Stone Mask) become prominent in later parts of the manga. Like i said his strength feat was the greatest strength feat in entire manga. Even Stands have lesser strenght feats, although I haven't compare Tarkus to them.

Zombies are servants to vampire. They're not synonymous, at all. Tarkus may have the best strength feat, but he's not physically the strongest. Which is all that matters. He's the most destructive with physical strength, but he's not physically the strongest.

We have Star Platinum shattering two rows of dozens of gigantic diamond teeth with one powerful punch. Said diamond teeth was far harder than solid rock given that the Stand can casually shatter rock. However strong Tarkus is, he's not much stronger than Star Platinum's feat. And The World is stronger than Star Platinum.

Also don't put words in my mouth. By saying stronger, I didn't mean that Tarkus is more powerful than Dio, and Pillar Men. I was simply refering to physical strength (Tarkus was a simple brute). He only had his strength augumented while Dio and Pillar Men had far more exotic abilities, which would alow them and rather easy win in fight with Tarkus. And if you check NAruto Forums you will also see that common opinion is that Tarkus is the strongest vampire/character in entire manga (this exludes the Stands). That doesn't mean that I won't you to subdue to that opinion or that I think because i was told so by them. Point is that prior to become zombie/vampire Tarkus already had strength on par if not greater than vampires made by Stone Mask. They shattered several axes on his neck when they atempted to behead him, and a hobo - turned vampire by Dio with Stone Mask was able to extremly damage th wall, but in the process he completly destroyed his fist. And when that happens Dio concludes that vampires don't aquire proportional increse in durability. In other words they keep their human durability. This confirms that DIO HAS VERY LOW DURABILITY and can partly explain also why Jonathan shattered Tarkus's head (althouhg thanks to riple is far more likely). Anyway back to strength. Transformation increses strength so Tarkus strength was increased when he transformed into zombie/vampire. It is proportional far every zombie/vampire. And that mean Tarkus will have more strength than human Dio( who was weaker than Tarkus in human form).

I didn't put anything in your mouth. Once again, you misinterpreted me. I never thought you said that Tarkus was more powerful than Dio/Pillar men. All I said was that Dio/Pillar Men are not physically weaker than Tarkus, in fact, they're physically stronger than him.

1. OBD has nothing to do with here. This be the 2nd time you've referred to them, and I really don't care. 2. You misread something. No one in the OBD thinks Tarkus is physically the strongest in the entire series. They all know that Jonathan, Dio, and anyone above that by powerscaling are all stronger than a low tier like Tarkus. Want proof? Check all the Joseph Joestar threads made this month.

You have no proof that human Tarkus was stronger than Stone Mask vampires. In fact, the thing that was most noted about Tarkus was his durability and endurance, not his physical strength. He destroyed his fist, because his hand was butchered by Dio.

Not sure why we're arguing about durability. Dio's durability can be low as hell for all I care. Nothing to do with my argument.

Zombies < Stone Mask Vampires. Tarkus rose as a zombie out of the blue during Zeppeli + Jonathan vs Dio. Dio was a stone mask vampire who had time to develop his powers for weeks (which given that Dio loves to tests his powers, he sought to achieve as much power as possible) AND devoured many lives just to get him to his prime. Again, there's a difference between someone who's the most destructive with strength and someone who's physically the strongest.

If you reread my previous post, you can see that I stated at THE END OF THE PART 3 (refering to to increase in time stopping during entire Part 3). The longest seen so far in manga is 9 seconds, shortly after that Dio died. So we can't use more than that unless OP specificly stated for example that he alows 1 minute time stop or more. Kapish ? Anything above those 9 seconds is what Dio could potentially achive. And we deal here with WHAT WAS SHOWN and not with WHAT MIGHT HAVE HAPPEND OR BE SHOWN. The world shown that he can stop it for 9 seconds max so that the upper limit until OP states othervise. By the way Dio can't hurt anyone in Gauntlet 2. He lacks the offensive power to do that. And The World hasn't shown anything above street level of attacking power. And I repeat before he says Za Warudo he will be mutilated. As shown in manga and especially in OVA's he says Za Warudo in the same amount of time the regular human would say. That's about 1 second (say Za Warudo by yourself and see how long it takes). Guys in Gaunlet 2 can do many things in 1 second.

The time limit constantly increases as Dio is more used to his body. Why does the OP need to state the time limit of Dio's timestop? Makes no sense. OP'd be making out numbers out of nowhere. The longer the battle is, the more the timestop increases. It can be a 2 second, 1 second increase for all I care.

Except you're denying statements and all other battle debating procedures if you restrict it to feats-only. Restricting hype, statements, and powerscaling kills off the reality of the match.

Dio has blood freezing. I really don't understand why you're so hung up on attack power, when hax is typically a more efficient and effective way of defeating enemies. The World is stronger than Dio who's stronger than Tarkus. The World is stronger than Star Platinum who has a strength feat I've described earlier. Therefore, The World has large building level punches. Oh and guess what. Spamming diamond-shattering punches at FTL speed is overkill for people like Dante and Ichigo.

You did not read the manga. Dio has willed time to stop without uttering anything SEVERAL times. I also would like to introduce how important reaction/perception speed is here. 1 second to Dio (who's reactions are faster than the speed of light) wouldn't even be a millisecond to slow-ass reactors like Goku, Yusuke, and below.

No you don't have any real argument for Dio and you just keep repeating the same thing over and over.
- Alucard is much faster than Dio. And after aproximately 27 seconds from Alucard vs Dio round 1, Dio's body will be ripped apart by Rip Van Winkle's bullet and Tubalcaine Alhambra's cards. That's one real argument :-) .

You didn't put any counter on the table, so there's nothing for me to do but repeat my argument which is the only argument I need.

Yeah, he's faster in footspeed. He's slow as fuck in reactions. This is literally THE WORLD! before Alucard can even think of doing anything, and then freezing his body. Do tell me how pre-schrodinger Alucard can get through that? What in his arsenal does he have to counter being completely frozen, hm? Releasing Level 0 allows Dio to pulverize him with The World and it takes away Alucard too much time.

Gimme a break about FTL. First of all. FTL speed for Stands comes from powerscailing of Star Platinum. In that thread you can see some users posting scans from Jojo's Bizarred Adventure databook. Interesting thing is that info about stands came in Part 6, and yet the stands first appear in part 3. By the way statement that Star Platinum is FTL is rather stupid since so far the best speed he shown is catching a bullet. What's even more interesting whan user on Naruto Forums claimed that scan was fan edited. Furthere it contradicts what has been shown in Part 6 during Manhattn Transfer. Also in Part 4 it was shown that there is limit to how powerful attack Star Platinum can stop. And it really doesn't matter if he is FTL or not he isn't stopping something on par or above building buster like (Sheer Heart Attack of Kira ). Anyway Star Platinum beinf FTL or ligth speed wasn't stated in manga. And especially not in part 3 . So far the only Stand in part 3 which has light speed movement (not reactions) is The Hanged Man. And only Silver Chariot could match him which contradicts with Star Platinum being FTL since Silver Chariot was shown to be faster. Also Sivler Chariot was able to stab The Hanged Man only because The Hanged Man was cornered in only possible coin. Also I repeat that Hanged Man can only move at light speed he can't react no where near it.

And this is how I know you don't know shit about JJBA. You haven't even scratched the surface if you argue against FTL speed. There is NO POWERSCALING. Silver Chariot reacted to and tagged a lightspeed hanged Man. To do that, he required FTL attack speed/reactions. LATER, an Anubis-enhanced Silver Chariot (who's much faster and stronger) was being kept up with by Star Platinum. FTL attack speed/reactions. Star Platinum was shown to be faster than Silver Chariot. It was portrayed to be faster, also. The World was stated by Dio to be faster than Star Platinum. At this point..... you just don't have an argument. STOP LYING.

so what if Dio followed Stand figth ? That's lame argument, not to mention that non of the Stands in pArt 3 should have even ligth speed movement (except for Hanged man). Even Joseph Joestar was able to do the same, and he has regular human reactions. And don't come with Cars feat in part 2 since it was an outlier. Author didn't think that UV light beam can travel at speed of light. So you can't powerscale Joseph reactions from that. Also Joseph wasn't able to track Esidisi(or was it Wammu, I can't remember right now and I'm too lazy to look in the manga for it) escaping feat (the one when he twists his body), so that indicates that Joseph is unable to track even supersonic speeds. Which furthere confirms that Stands in part 3 can't be FTL. And even being FTL won't change anything at all since nor Dio (street level) nor World (building buster) can hurt anyone in Gauntlet 2 , except for Alucard (only in case of World).

Joseph Joestar fought Cars who has FTL reactions. Joseph reacted to Cars's attacks which are likely FTL given he used his hands to block a laser at point-blank while it was down by his side AFTER it was shot. Joseph Joestar reacted to a laser at least once. The first time, Caesar and he dodged a light beam reflected off of the Red Stone of Asia. The second time was possibly him reacting to Stroheim's laser. What was that about Joseph having average human reactions?

This is where I know you can't salvage anything to defend your argument. It was not an outlier. It can't possibly be an outlier, because there's not enough information to say it is. Prove that Araki didn't know lasers travel at the speed of light. And guess what. Animevice accepts outliers. it's inconsistencies that aren't accepted. The only place where outliers aren't accepted off the top of my head is the OBD. This ain't the OBD.

Show me the scan.

You must be dense. Timestop spam + FTL reactions + blood freezing ends them.

At this point, I'll like to say 2 new things.

1. Why is Dio being physically stronger than Tarkus important if he's not destructive with it? Simple. He punches holes. Unless scenario 1 characters have city block durability, they'll have a hole through them. Nothing more, nothing less.

2. I would also concede my previous remark that Dio beats Goku. If Goku starts out in Kaioken, then Goku wins.

Post by TheVectorPrime (269 posts) See mini bio Level 9

@phantomrant: So you're repeating the same BS again. Well that's the obvious thing lame debaters do when they're owned. Just to point several things to you.

- You can't prove that Dio alone has FTL reflexes(cause something liek that was never shown or stated). Nothing about Stands from part 3 being FTL was stated in entire manga only in databook (for Star Platinum). They couldn't react to much slower attacks. Nor you can powerscale it from Cars feat since Joseph was unable to follow the movements of Santana when that Pillar Man was twisting his body to escape. So better would be that Cars feat is inconsitancies.

- Actually both Naruto and Ichigo would be FTL, since in earlier instances of the mangas there were characters which were stated to be light speeders. Too bad later on there were characters who were low end hypersonic and they would able to blitz them (the same thing like in Jojo's Bizarre Adventure). But I can be as lame as you and insist that Naruto and Ichigo are FTL. And it would be valid since you insist that Jojo's character are FTL. Powerscailing for Naruto and Ichigo making them FTL would be more valid then powerscailing for Dio and others, by the way (based on feats from manga).

- Every Riple users is a regular human. Riple technique doesn't increase physical stats, it's just form of energy manipulation. By stating the opposite you've just proved that you're simply colecting you're info from OBD wiki (that's the reason why I mentioned opinion from Naruto forums).

- I already adressed things about Tarkus, and you repeating BS like parrot won't change the thing that Dio is physicly weaker than him. Oh, by the way just post one scan which proves that without the Stand, Dio is far superior to his former self from 100 years earlier. He didn't have the body for that amount of time, so there isn't chance in hell that he could be far more powerful. At best we could say that he might be a little physicly stronger since in part 3 he has Jonathan's body. And Jonathan was physicly superior to human Dio.

- You're wanking of Star Platinum is irrelevent since in Part 4(when Star Platnium is more powerful than in Part 3) clear limit was shown. FTL or not he is unable to block Sheer Heart Attack, which would be building buster by OBD standards . And every character(except Alucard) in Gauntlet 2 has destructive capacity far above that.

we see Star Platinum protecting Jotaro.

Even though explosion didn't make any damage in room I take it as building buster based on fact that it was stated it will be hundreds of times greater than victim's temperature. Calculating from that we can get building busting as result. Although calc would be rather of topic now(but I can do it if you want).

- In Part 3 if there is any difference between Star Platinum and World it's minimal. Dio statement is rather hyperbole (World being more powerful) since Star Platinum has better stats in databook than the World. So building buster attack would be enough to ko Dio also.

- Dio starts shouting "za warudo'' whe using time -stop when readers are informed about capabilities of World to stop time. Before that happens we are left to belive that he can basicly teleport.

- Dio having city block destructive power !? You say that you don't care about OBD opinion and yet use their failed powerscailing for this. Anyway even if we use that as a true it won't change much. City block destructive power is useles againts Goku, Ichigo, Luggy, Naruto, Yusuke, Sensui and Dante (although I might be wrong for him since I'm not very familiar with dante's capabilities and i'm posting what i was told). And actually it's no where near to it. It's on par with Star Platinum which was shown to be able to destroy artificial diamond the size of the car, at high end he would be able to destroy a building with barrage of punches, powerscailed from that.

- Burden of proof can be aplied to you also. To prove that Space Ripper Stingy Eyes(which at best can only cut stone) can effect anyone in Gauntlet 2, that blood freezing will effect anyone etc... Too bad you're unable to prove anything of that and you can just repeat the same thing over. Evidance that you're not a valid debater is you stating:

- that Space Ripper Stingy Eyes durability is greater than that of any character from gauntlet 2 (WTF you mean with that ? :-) )

- asking me to prove that author didn't thought about UV rays being light speed when he used them in plot (well go ask him would you ?)

those stupidities only prove that you're child or simply dumb.

- Alucard cathing Rip Van Winkle's bullet, proves that his cheek is durable enough to withstand it's impact and that his teeth are strong enough to shatter it (to correct you). But it's apparent that you're unable to comprehand that.

I can show you many more flaws you made but it would be of topic. You were owned and that's the fact. I was like a teacher to you and you were simply a bad student who won't listen. If you won't to be a valid debater than listen to people and don't be lame and biased. That's a friendly advice.

Post by phantomrant (1,498 posts) See mini bio Level 10

@TheVectorPrime said:

@phantomrant: So you're repeating the same BS again. Well that's the obvious thing lame debaters do when they're owned. Just to point several things to you.

- You can't prove that Dio alone has FTL reflexes(cause something liek that was never shown or stated). Nothing about Stands from part 3 being FTL was stated in entire manga only in databook (for Star Platinum). They couldn't react to much slower attacks. Nor you can powerscale it from Cars feat since Joseph was unable to follow the movements of Santana when that Pillar Man was twisting his body to escape. So better would be that Cars feat is inconsitancies.

You didn't own me. I literally have effectively countered everything you've said. I really do love your arrogance.

You're terrible at this. I wasn't powerscaling anything from Cars's feat. I was powerscaling from Joseph and Caesar. I see that you can't tell what's an inconsistency and what's an outlier. First off, that was pre-training Joseph that you're nitpicking at. Second, show me the scan where Joseph had trouble reacting to Santana's movement. Stands don't need statements to confirm FTL speed, when they've shown FTL speed or have kept up with Stands with FTL feats.

As for Stands/characters being unable to react to things that are much lower than the speed of light, all you're nitpicking at are inconsistencies within a shonen manga. THIS IS YOUR PROBLEM. You can't tell which is an inconsistency and which one isn't. Because of that, you used what you perceive as an inconsistency to downplay Dio Brando, instead of evaluating him.

Dio Brando effortlessly slapped away dozens of Emerald Splash several times at point-blank. Same Emerald Splash that Star Platinum had trouble reacting to early in the series. FTL reactions, all without a Stand out.

Actually both Naruto and Ichigo would be FTL, since in earlier instances of the mangas there were characters which were stated to be light speeders. Too bad later on there were characters who were low end hypersonic and they would able to blitz them (the same thing like in Jojo's Bizarre Adventure). But I can be as lame as you and insist that Naruto and Ichigo are FTL. And it would be valid since you insist that Jojo's character are FTL. Powerscailing for Naruto and Ichigo making them FTL would be more valid then powerscailing for Dio and others, by the way (based on feats from manga).

You've proved to everyone in this forum that you don't know what you're talking about. Ever heard of hyperbole statements?

Every Riple users is a regular human. Riple technique doesn't increase physical stats, it's just form of energy manipulation. By stating the opposite you've just proved that you're simply colecting you're info from OBD wiki (that's the reason why I mentioned opinion from Naruto forums).

- Wrong. No Ripple user is a regular human. Once again, you've improperly evaluated the series either intentionally to downplay or just because you don't know what you're talking about. Literally every single Ripple user have displayed themselves to be above an average human after their training. Even Dire was stated to be "above human" by Dio.

- Oh my god. Have you never read part 1 or part 2? It was directly stated and shown, from the various superhuman physical exercises they perform during their training, that physical stats do increase. The Ripple has even been shown to increase strength as shown by the first use of the Ripple by Zeppeli.

- I like how you completely fail to disprove anything I've said, even to the point of accusing me of ripping off of za OBD wiki. Shows how short-sighted you are, seeing as you hold a meaningless grudge against them just cuz you got rejected by them, huh?

- I already adressed things about Tarkus, and you repeating BS like parrot won't change the thing that Dio is physicly weaker than him. Oh, by the way just post one scan which proves that without the Stand, Dio is far superior to his former self from 100 years earlier. He didn't have the body for that amount of time, so there isn't chance in hell that he could be far more powerful. At best we could say that he might be a little physicly stronger since in part 3 he has Jonathan's body. And Jonathan was physicly superior to human Dio.

And I already countered your "address" on Tarkus. I see that you don't have an argument against my contradiction in this post? Concession accepted. For future reference, just repeating "ur wrongz cuz i sayz so and i proved it" despite the fact I've contradicted you isn't gonna cut it.

-Not sure what you're trying to say here. All I've said is that the only thing different between Part 3 Dio and part 1 Dio in terms of base stats is reaction speed. Not sure where this physical strength thing is coming from, but you probably misread something.

You're wanking of Star Platinum is irrelevent since in Part 4(when Star Platnium is more powerful than in Part 3) clear limit was shown. FTL or not he is unable to block Sheer Heart Attack, which would be building buster by OBD standards . And every character(except Alucard) in Gauntlet 2 has destructive capacity far above that.

Not sure why you bothered posting that scan. Were you trying to counter my "wank"? If so, then do post a scan that has to do something with his strength or speed/reactions. all you've proven is that a Stand attack was able to hurt Star Platinum. Like I've said, I don't care about durability. None of the characters are gonna get to tag Star Platinum before they die. Especially since Stands can be intangible and that intangibility is bypassed by other Stands.

In Part 3 if there is any difference between Star Platinum and World it's minimal. Dio statement is rather hyperbole (World being more powerful) since Star Platinum has better stats in databook than the World. So building buster attack would be enough to ko Dio also.
- Dio starts shouting "za warudo'' whe using time -stop when readers are informed about capabilities of World to stop time. Before that happens we are left to belive that he can basicly teleport.

Um.... both of their strength and speed are ranked as "A." Do tell me how it's hyperbole when they're both "maxed" out in the ranking system.

Yeah, that's really nice, except you haven't disproved anything I've said. Shouting the world is a dramatic manga effect. Dio has shown to have willed time to stop without saying anything like half the time he was shown shouting "The World!' out loud.

Dio having city block destructive power !? You say that you don't care about OBD opinion and yet use their failed powerscailing for this. Anyway even if we use that as a true it won't change much. City block destructive power is useles againts Goku, Ichigo, Luggy, Naruto, Yusuke, Sensui and Dante (although I might be wrong for him since I'm not very familiar with dante's capabilities and i'm posting what i was told). And actually it's no where near to it. It's on par with Star Platinum which was shown to be able to destroy artificial diamond the size of the car, at high end he would be able to destroy a building with barrage of punches, powerscailed from that

Fail. I've never said anything about city block destructive power. I've said large building striking strength. Try again.

Dante has shit durability. One punch to the head to obliterate it and another punch to the heart (only for good measure) while under a timestop and he stays dead and down. So does Ichigo when he's faced with a barrage. When spamming dozens of large-building level punches at FTL speed, Ichigo is screwed. His durability is too low. Especially when he's under a timestop when The World was stated to be even stronger and faster under by Dio.

I literally have not said anything about Dio/The World's punches working against the rest. Hax, man. All of this is just a prime example of how hax beats power.

Burden of proof can be aplied to you also. To prove that Space Ripper Stingy Eyes(which at best can only cut stone) can effect anyone in Gauntlet 2, that blood freezing will effect anyone etc... Too bad you're unable to prove anything of that and you can just repeat the same thing over. Evidance that you're not a valid debater is you stating:
- that Space Ripper Stingy Eyes durability is greater than that of any character from gauntlet 2 (WTF you mean with that ? :-) )

Oh my god.... how many times do I have to say it? I've never said anything about Stingy Eyes regarding to Gauntlet 2 characters. I've only said it to Scenario 1 characters? Are you lacking reading comprehension, as well?

Blood freezing allows Dio to vaporize one's bodily fluids upon contact. Thus sapping away the heat, thus causing them to freeze. Unless everyone but Goku has resistance to having their fluids vaporized, heat being sapped away from them, or to being completely frozen (from which they'll be shattered to pieces by Dio), hax beats power. All of this is just a prime example of how hax beats power.

Read this ----> I've repeated the same things because you haven't argued or contradicted against them OR your argument against them have been contradicted by me. Unless you yourself start constructing a good argument, you're not gonna win this. And I'm only going to repeat things because they're the only things that need to be repeated.

Oh, lookie here. Avoiding the argument, as you've always have.

- you havent shown me proof that scenario 1 characters can tank space ripper stingy eyes, as i've asked you twice before.

-you've decided to twist my words, due to misinterpretation or lack of reading comprehension.

-What the hell is a "valid" debater.

asking me to prove that author didn't thought about UV rays being light speed when he used them in plot (well go ask him would you ?)
those stupidities only prove that you're child or simply dumb.
- Alucard cathing Rip Van Winkle's bullet, proves that his cheek is durable enough to withstand it's impact and that his teeth are strong enough to shatter it (to correct you). But it's apparent that you're unable to comprehand that.

- What the hell r u on about? You questioned UV rays being at the speed of light. I told you to ask the author if he knew they were lightspeed to prove your meaningless claim. Now you're asking ME to ask Araki if he knew UV rays are lightspeed? Burden of Proof... is on YOU.

Pretty sure that you're the child here.

We literally see that his cheek was ripped apart by the impact. Do you even read the Hellsing manga?

All this proves is that his teeth is strong enough to stop it. And he didn't shatter it, either. That was only in OVA 4. Seems that you must have missed this. Alucard has terrible durability.

I can show you many more flaws you made but it would be of topic. You were owned and that's the fact. I was like a teacher to you and you were simply a bad student who won't listen. If you won't to be a valid debater than listen to people and don't be lame and biased. That's a friendly advice.

So.... so, conceited. Either construct a good argument or concede completely, my friend.

Post by TheVectorPrime (269 posts) See mini bio Level 9

@phantomrant: So you can't be so easily provoked with "I own you" and similar :-) ? Well that's good, now we can get serious. Before we start I want to tell you that I will use capslook to emphasize important things, not for shouting.

First thing which I wanted to point to you is, that The World is less durable than Star Platinum (since you're refering to Stands stats from databook as you're argument base). The World has C(rap) for durability which means average(and IS ON THE SAME LEVEL AS DURABILITY OF HUMAN BEING), SO wORLD IS ACTUALLY LESS DURABLE THAN DIO), while Star Platinum has A for durability (which means very good). By the way it was stated in both manga and anime that World has lesser durability than Star Platinum, while Star Platinum has lesser range. So you see if Star Platinum is unable to attack powerful enough to destroy a building, than World will be unable to stop even LESS POWERFUL ATTACK. I think we both agree (stating the opposite would be silly), that characters in Gauntlet 2 (except Alucard) have destructive power far greater than that. SO YOU CAN'T DENY THE FACT IF THEY LAY ONE HIT ON DIO HE IS FINISHED. Even Alucard would be able to deliver a fatal blow with one hit. Also going by the stat book (SINCE IT'S THE ONLY SOURCE STATING STAR PLATINUM IS FTL, WHICH YOU USE FOR YOUR CASE THEREFORE I CAN ALSO USE IT FOR MY CASE). By the way by same databook it was stated that Star Platinum is the strongest Stand there is. Therefore World can't dish out more damage than Star Platinum (building buster at best). ALSO HE WON'T BE ABLE TO DO ANYTHING TO DIO'S OPPONENTS IF THEY ARE 10M OR ABOVE, SINCE HIS RANGE IS ONLY 10M AND HE BECOME WEAKER WITH DISTANCE BEING CLOSED TO 10M.

- Second

Ichigo has durability far above building level. He tanked Monster Aizen's Fragor without great effort ( only had scortched arm) and that attack is far above anything any Stand can do and even current is close to it. And Dante at full power is above building level by large margin(based on the brief research i did about him) and the fact that he has feat of tanking a huge explosion. So you're arguments fall in water completely.

- Third

- his eye liquid was stated to be powerful enough to slice stone. Everyone in second gauntlet have durability much greater than that (even Alucard)

Their durability is higher than a thin, concentrated, pressurized supersonic water beam that sliced through stone? Prove it.

ABOVE ARE YOU'RE WORDS(WHEN YOU QUOTED ME) WHICH ARE BOLDED. AS YOU SEE YOU WERE REFERING TO SECOND GAUNTLET. So don't try to "slip away" now. Also you stated this:

The World is stronger than Star Platinum who has a strength feat I've described earlier

As I posted Star Platinum was stated to be the strongest Stand. So you lying again.

Also: 1. Why is Dio being physically stronger than Tarkus important if he's not destructive with it? Simple. He punches holes. Unless scenario 1 characters have city block durability, they'll have a hole through them. Nothing more, nothing less.

If character A needs city block durability to endure a fight with character B, that implies that character B has city block destructive power (at minimum). You're words again and you lying again. Those were some of your lies I wanted to emphasize.

- Fourth

Stands augument stats of their users by large margin. Stating the opposite you just prove that you haven't read the manga (or payed attention while reading). Jotaro and every other Stand user (except Joseph who knows ripple also, Dio, Iggy and Vanilla Ice ) are regular humans. There are numerous examples of that. Jotaro trying to kill himself with handgun, Dio atempting to slice his head, Abdul stating that Magician Red will protect him from being stabbed ... There are tons of example and it's totaly silly asking me to prove obvious thing. Since like I said there are tons of examples users stating(or being shown on panel) that they need Stands to protect them. Probably the best examples are the ones where Stand users are killed afetr their Stands are Koed or destroyed. Anyway that was regarding some previous statement of yours.

I want you to post me feats of Jonathan and Ceasare which can be presented as light speed feats. Even better I want you to post me a scan which states that they moved at light speed. This will be Point A for you to prove. About Cars feat being and outlier. He was an able to catch up with 30's aeroplane and yet he is able to react FTL ??? How can he move one part of his body at subsonic speed faster than eye) and another FTL (billions of times faster) ? That's insane and silly. Reactions can't be that greater than movement speed. And ALSO POWERSCAILING FROM THAT FEAT FAILS. SINCE THAN IT WOULD MEAN HULK HAS FTL REACTIONS AS WELL SINCE HE IS ABLE TO TAG SILVER SURFER, NO MATTER SPIDER-MAN BLITZES HIM.

About Ripple augumenting someone's physical stats. Prove it ? Post me a scan which confirms. Too bad you can't since nothing in entire manga states somehting like that. Read chapters 23 and 24 of Phantom Blood http://www.mangahere.com/manga/jojo_s_bizarre_adventure/v003/c024/ or read this arcticles http://jjba.wikia.com/wiki/Hamon and http://www.narutoforums.com/showthread.php?t=190239 . So you're caught lying again. Also if Joseph wasn't a regular human this would be extremly graphic (refering to violent scene)

and yet it isn' graphic (his leg is intact). By the way it's obvious that Joseph didn't hold back. It was a serious kick. And don't come with "incosistency" since there are tons of similar examples in both Part 1 and Part 2.

-Fifth

Haha, so now you're only argument for Dio being FTL is that he was able to react to Emerald Splash, even regular human Jotaro was able to evade (and it wasn't feat of SP, since Star Platinum only blocks attacks). To bad Hierophant Green only has B for speed (which stands for good and for sure can't be Light Speed or above), therefore is weaker than Star Platinum. No to mention that his physical stats is poor. He is weaker than Noriaki physicly. All I can say about this is "good try" .

Furthere. Only Stands stated so far to be FTL are Star Platinum and Silver Chariot. The World has also A for speed and it was stated to be similar to Star Platinum. But it wasn't stated that World is FTL no where (manga, anime or databook). It's simply your failed powerscaling. I want you to post scan which states that World is FTL. This is Point B which you need to prove.

Inconsistency is a lame argument. Since this manga has single author who knows power levels of his characters. More likely is "certain guys overhyping the feats too much" than author being inconsistence. And in case you try to use DBGT as counter-argument. I must tell you that DBGT is not made by Akira Toriyama.

Durability matters for both Stands and users. Since if Stand is injured so will be the user and opposite. This doesn't aply only to Silver Chariot and The Fool. Not to mention that Dio is like a pidgeon to anyone from Gauntlet 2. And World is even worse. So it really doens't matter if World is thought form or not. He won't be able to stop anything guys from Gauntlet 2 dish out.

So you're only argument for guys from Gauntlet 2 is blood freezing. I already stated that it didn't gave much trouble to the peak human Jonathan. You're avoiding that. Well than prove to me that it will effect anyone from gauntlet 2. I want scans and not you're fanfiction. This is Point C which you need to prove. To sum it up this "hax" is useless in Gauntlet 2. Alucard will show him what true versitle power set is. Too bad he won't get to Ichigo, Luffy and Naruto to see other forms of ''hax''

-Sixth

As for Stingy Eyes and guys from Gauntlet 1. Check my first post and you will see that I stated only Luke Cage(who should defeat Dio) and Spidey should be problem to him. Although, now I think that Blade with his gadgets could also be a major problem. The hardest thing so far cut with Stingy Eyes is stone pillar (therefore you can't make asumption that it can cut steel or something more durable). Luke Cage has body far more durable than stone. His skin(even eyes) is as durable as titanium steel (much harder than regular steel), therefore no chance in hell for Stingy Eyes to pierce him. Not to mention that he is 25 tonner and could chop Dio's head easily. Freezing won't help since Jonathan endured it, and Cage endured similar attack without effort. I stated Spidey should give him a good fight , but I didn't stae who will win. Anyway I think that Spiderman should win. His much faster in reactions (supersonic) while Dio is subsonic (unable to evade subsonic gun). Even in movement speed Spidey is faster and is much more agile than Dio. Has wide set of abilities(spider Sense) which will give him and advantage. And has strength to challange Dio. More likely he is stronger than Dio(wallbuster without the Stand).

If you don't prove Points: A, B and C it would be clear that you gave up and that you're posting false info.

P.S. All of my statements are perfect clear (unlike yours which tend to contradict eachother - this is gramaticly correct, by the way) so don't twist my words.

Post by TheVectorPrime (269 posts) See mini bio Level 9

@phantomrant: Since I have forgotten.

Santana blitzing Joseph

- By the way it was stated in part 1 that vampire Dio is as fast as cheetah (max speed 120km/h). So there goes your FTL Dio :-) .

Post by phantomrant (1,498 posts) See mini bio Level 10

@TheVectorPrime said:

@phantomrant: So you can't be so easily provoked with "I own you" and similar :-) ? Well that's good, now we can get serious. Before we start I want to tell you that I will use capslook to emphasize important things, not for shouting.

What.... are you on about?

First thing which I wanted to point to you is, that The World is less durable than Star Platinum (since you're refering to Stands stats from databook as you're argument base). The World has C(rap) for durability which means average(and IS ON THE SAME LEVEL AS DURABILITY OF HUMAN BEING), SO wORLD IS ACTUALLY LESS DURABLE THAN DIO), while Star Platinum has A for durability (which means very good). By the way it was stated in both manga and anime that World has lesser durability than Star Platinum, while Star Platinum has lesser range. So you see if Star Platinum is unable to attack powerful enough to destroy a building, than World will be unable to stop even LESS POWERFUL ATTACK. I think we both agree (stating the opposite would be silly), that characters in Gauntlet 2 (except Alucard) have destructive power far greater than that. SO YOU CAN'T DENY THE FACT IF THEY LAY ONE HIT ON DIO HE IS FINISHED. Even Alucard would be able to deliver a fatal blow with one hit. Also going by the stat book (SINCE IT'S THE ONLY SOURCE STATING STAR PLATINUM IS FTL, WHICH YOU USE FOR YOUR CASE THEREFORE I CAN ALSO USE IT FOR MY CASE). By the way by same databook it was stated that Star Platinum is the strongest Stand there is. Therefore World can't dish out more damage than Star Platinum (building buster at best). ALSO HE WON'T BE ABLE TO DO ANYTHING TO DIO'S OPPONENTS IF THEY ARE 10M OR ABOVE, SINCE HIS RANGE IS ONLY 10M AND HE BECOME WEAKER WITH DISTANCE BEING CLOSED TO 10M.

I can't believe I have to keep on saying this. I don't even think you know what my argument is nor do you know how to properly counter it.

1. I don't care about durability.

2. I'm not referring anything from the databook. I'm using direct manga statements regarding to strength and speed. Do you know what strength is? It means punching power. Not durability. You must have the incorrect definition of "durability".

3. You're clueless. The World was able to match and overpower Star Platinum's punches. It's just that when a bloodlusted/pissed-off Star Platinum was able to hurt The World because of its poor durability. Which has nothing to do with my argument. The World isn't stopping anything. It's either punching a defenseless opponent under a timestop or Dio himself is freezing people's blood.

4. Alucard having far greater destructive power than "large building level?" Uh... no he doesn't.

5. I've never denied that Dio can be one-shotted by people like Naruto, Luffy, Ichigo, Sensui,and Yusuke. All I've said is that it doesn't matter because they'll never touch him. Geez. 6. My primary support for FTL Stands is because of Silver Chariot's feat. Databook statement is just back-up.

7. It was stated to be the strongest BECAUSE DIO/THE WORLD WAS DEAD.

8. I'm glad you mentioned the insignificant 10m limit. About time I answered something new. Said limit can be mitigated by timestop + crossing the distance WITH THE WORLD. The 10m limit really is insignificant given the fact that Dio's opponents in scenario 2 have no defense against timestop spam.

Second

Ichigo has durability far above building level. He tanked Monster Aizen's Fragor without great effort ( only had scortched arm) and that attack is far above anything any Stand can do and even current is close to it. And Dante at full power is above building level by large margin(based on the brief research i did about him) and the fact that he has feat of tanking a huge explosion. So you're arguments fall in water completely.

This is current Ichigo. Read the OP. And you must have a fucking poor ranking of Bleach standings if you think Current Ichigo is remotely near Dangai Ichigo (or even H2 Ichigo for that matter) in terms of anything. Ichigo gets smashed in the face by dozens of large-building punches.

I wasn't looking at full power Dante. He gets the freezing treatment, then.

The only argument here that's being debunked is yours.

Their durability is higher than a thin, concentrated, pressurized supersonic water beam that sliced through stone? Prove it.
ABOVE ARE YOU'RE WORDS(WHEN YOU QUOTED ME) WHICH ARE BOLDED. AS YOU SEE YOU WERE REFERING TO SECOND GAUNTLET. So don't try to "slip away" now. Also you stated this:
The World is stronger than Star Platinum who has a strength feat I've described earlier
As I posted Star Platinum was stated to be the strongest Stand. So you lying again.
Also: 1. Why is Dio being physically stronger than Tarkus important if he's not destructive with it? Simple. He punches holes. Unless scenario 1 characters have city block durability, they'll have a hole through them. Nothing more, nothing less.
If character A needs city block durability to endure a fight with character B, that implies that character B has city block destructive power (at minimum). You're words again and you lying again. Those were some of your lies I wanted to emphasize.

I must have thought you typed the first scenario, because I only mentioned Space Ripper Stingy Eyes for first scenario characters. Doesn't change the fact that you were going on about an useless point about the liquid beams if you were talking about scenario 2 characters (which I've never stated were effective against).

You need city block durability to TANK large building punches, moron. That's how they won't have a goddamn hole in their body due to a punch from Dio or The World. All I'm doing is using the level above "large building level" as the minimum basis.

Fourth
Stands augument stats of their users by large margin. Stating the opposite you just prove that you haven't read the manga (or payed attention while reading). Jotaro and every other Stand user (except Joseph who knows ripple also, Dio, Iggy and Vanilla Ice ) are regular humans. There are numerous examples of that. Jotaro trying to kill himself with handgun, Dio atempting to slice his head, Abdul stating that Magician Red will protect him from being stabbed ... There are tons of example and it's totaly silly asking me to prove obvious thing. Since like I said there are tons of examples users stating(or being shown on panel) that they need Stands to protect them. Probably the best examples are the ones where Stand users are killed afetr their Stands are Koed or destroyed. Anyway that was regarding some previous statement of yours.

1. Omg... the moment I read the first sentence, I knew you were contradicting yourself. Either fix that sentence or your argument about how part 1 Dio = part 3 dio in stats.

2. The majority of part 3 JJBA cast has at least relativistic reactions. Not knowing this is a huge blunder on your part. Every single Ripple user is superhuman and everyone that combated the Ripple users are superhuman. What does Jotaro trying to kill himself have to do with this? ARE YOU ON ABOUT DURABILITY AGAIN?! Christ, STOP EQUALIZING DURABILITY WITH PHYSICAL STATS. There's much more to durability to determine what's a regular, athletic, super, and metahuman. You literally proved nothing by mentioning those scenes. I don't even why you thought they were connected to being "regular humans."

3. Your point is vague and messy. What does "needing Stands to protect them" have to do with what I've said?

I want you to post me feats of Jonathan and Ceasare which can be presented as light speed feats. Even better I want you to post me a scan which states that they moved at light speed. This will be Point A for you to prove. About Cars feat being and outlier. He was an able to catch up with 30's aeroplane and yet he is able to react FTL ??? How can he move one part of his body at subsonic speed faster than eye) and another FTL (billions of times faster) ? That's insane and silly. Reactions can't be that greater than movement speed. And ALSO POWERSCAILING FROM THAT FEAT FAILS. SINCE THAN IT WOULD MEAN HULK HAS FTL REACTIONS AS WELL SINCE HE IS ABLE TO TAG SILVER SURFER, NO MATTER SPIDER-MAN BLITZES HIM.

http://www.mangarush.com/manga/jojo39s-bizarre-adventure/76/p-10

I don't need a statement to prove that a reflected laser travels at the speed of light. A light ray was reflected off of the stone. It shot out as a laser. It behaved like a laser. It traveled at lightspeed. Stroheim's laser was a UV light beam. It behaved like a laser. It traveled at lightspeed. The fact that there lightspeed feats were reproduced destroys any notion of an outlier (not that it matters since outliers are accepted). Don't waste my time on this.

Movement speed =/= Reaction speed. You don't fucking know anything about speed, do you? REACTIONS ARE ALWAYS ABOVE MOVEMENT SPEED. This also destroys your last sentence of the post above this. Are you really telling me you can't react to something that can move beyond, say 9 m/s (like a car)? Your reaction speed is far, far lower than that of the average human. At this point, I REALLY KNOW YOU'RE NEW TO BATTLE DEBATE.

About Ripple augumenting someone's physical stats. Prove it ? Post me a scan which confirms. Too bad you can't since nothing in entire manga states somehting like that. Read chapters 23 and 24 of Phantom Bloodhttp://www.mangahere.com/manga/jojo_s_bizarre_adventure/v003/c024/ or read this arcticles http://jjba.wikia.com/wiki/Hamon andhttp://www.narutoforums.com/showthread.php?t=190239 . So you're caught lying again. Also if Joseph wasn't a regular human this would be extremly graphic (refering to violent scene)

1. Read the manga.

2. I said the RIPPLE TRAINING augmented physical stats.

3. You're terrible at this. What's with the intentional posting of low-end feats? You're deliberately using Joseph's lowest-end feats to downplay him. I've never seen such an incompetent debater. First off, Joseph was an old man. Second, he didn't want to kill that man, he just wanted to hurt him. Otherwise, he'd have turned him to a bloody mess. Do me a favor. Quit it with your blatant lies. I'm not impressed with your lying.

Haha, so now you're only argument for Dio being FTL is that he was able to react to Emerald Splash, even regular human Jotaro was able to evade (and it wasn't feat of SP, since Star Platinum only blocks attacks). To bad Hierophant Green only has B for speed (which stands for good and for sure can't be Light Speed or above), therefore is weaker than Star Platinum. No to mention that his physical stats is poor. He is weaker than Noriaki physicly. All I can say about this is "good try" .
Furthere. Only Stands stated so far to be FTL are Star Platinum and Silver Chariot. The World has also A for speed and it was stated to be similar to Star Platinum. But it wasn't stated that World is FTL no where (manga, anime or databook). It's simply your failed powerscaling. I want you to post scan which states that World is FTL. This is Point B which you need to prove.

lolno, my argument for base Dio having FTL reactions is that he was able to react to Emerald Splash. Dio with The World out obviously has FTL reactions.

Quit using the databook to downplay stuff if you don't know how to use it. The speed ranking as for the Stand, not its attack. And then the rest you mentioned about HG is just blabber.

http://www.mangarush.com/manga/jojo39s-bizarre-adventure/256/p-8

You not knowing that The World > Star Platinum is a sheer disappointment. It matched Star Platinum's punching speed. it was stated that it was faster than Star Platinum. Star Platinum is FTL. Therefore, The World is FTL. Are you really not getting this? This is basic logic, you amateur.

Inconsistency is a lame argument. Since this manga has single author who knows power levels of his characters. More likely is "certain guys overhyping the feats too much" than author being inconsistence. And in case you try to use DBGT as counter-argument. I must tell you that DBGT is not made by Akira Toriyama.
Durability matters for both Stands and users. Since if Stand is injured so will be the user and opposite. This doesn't aply only to Silver Chariot and The Fool. Not to mention that Dio is like a pidgeon to anyone from Gauntlet 2. And World is even worse. So it really doens't matter if World is thought form or not. He won't be able to stop anything guys from Gauntlet 2 dish out.

Uh, no. Inconsistency is a valid reason, as it happens in every single shonen fighting manga. If we accept inconsistencies, people like Goku and Vegeta will get slapped around by current naruto for their piss-poor strength and durability, now wouldn't they? The problem is that you can't properly evaluate someone's stats because you can't pinpoint the inconsistencies from the valid feats. Judge what's the proper feat and what's not. Since you're incapable of doing this, I see why you keep on downplaying JJBA with their low-end feats.

You're really not getting it. Dio stops time before scenario 2 characters can move a muscle. He freezes their blood or pummels them before timestop ends. Boom. They die. End of the story. No discussion for durability. Enemy didn't do anything. You fail to see the massive distinction in advantage Dio has in this battle compared to his opponents.

So you're only argument for guys from Gauntlet 2 is blood freezing. I already stated that it didn't gave much trouble to the peak human Jonathan. You're avoiding that. Well than prove to me that it will effect anyone from gauntlet 2. I want scans and not you're fanfiction. This is Point C which you need to prove. To sum it up this "hax" is useless in Gauntlet 2. Alucard will show him what true versitle power set is. Too bad he won't get to Ichigo, Luffy and Naruto to see other forms of ''hax''

Everyone but Ichigo gets the blood freezing treatment.

Uh, no. It gave immense trouble to a superhuman (seriously, you must be the only one here that intends to downplay him to peak human) Jonathan. It was even the primary concern for Jonathan. Jonathan had no defense of his own against it. His movements instantly stopped because his blood was frozen. Only reason why he was able to get out was because 1. HE WASN'T COMPLETELY FROZEN and 2. The ice literally melted because of a fire. Hence why I conceded to Goku. The other characters, unfortunately, do not have that advantage. They'll be completely frozen. Since their blood is frozen, then that means their body and brain is too. They're basically pretty much dead. After that, Dio shatters them to finish the job. Except for Alucard. He'll leave Alucard just frozen.

You're not listening. You're bias. I've already proven things to you. You repeating "it wont work" without a reason and ask for "proof" again isn't going to cut it. Try again, kid.

Alucard isn't doing anything here. I also like how you act as if Dio doesn't have a versatile power set. He has an array of powers and abilities. Not that it matters to me, seeing he only needs a few of his powers to win the matches.

-Sixth
As for Stingy Eyes and guys from Gauntlet 1. Check my first post and you will see that I stated only Luke Cage(who should defeat Dio) and Spidey should be problem to him. Although, now I think that Blade with his gadgets could also be a major problem. The hardest thing so far cut with Stingy Eyes is stone pillar (therefore you can't make asumption that it can cut steel or something more durable). Luke Cage has body far more durable than stone. His skin(even eyes) is as durable as titanium steel (much harder than regular steel), therefore no chance in hell for Stingy Eyes to pierce him. Not to mention that he is 25 tonner and could chop Dio's head easily. Freezing won't help since Jonathan endured it, and Cage endured similar attack without effort. I stated Spidey should give him a good fight , but I didn't stae who will win. Anyway I think that Spiderman should win. His much faster in reactions (supersonic) while Dio is subsonic (unable to evade subsonic gun). Even in movement speed Spidey is faster and is much more agile than Dio. Has wide set of abilities(spider Sense) which will give him and advantage. And has strength to challange Dio. More likely he is stronger than Dio(wallbuster without the Stand).

If it can cut through stone with no problem, then it's cutting through steel. I believe it even plowed through something metallic before. I see that you've overestimated exaclty how vast the difference in hardness between stone and steel really is. I also see you've been googling your information. You don't even know what you're talking about. If you can't defend characters you don't know about, then don't defend them. For all I know, you're likely blatantly lying to me.

Say that liquid beams can't pierce him. So what? Large-building level punches + blood freezing + mind-controlling spores work really well. And like I said, Parker might win.

Jonathan endured it because he wasn't completely frozen. It takes 2 seconds to completely freeze someone. Read the manga and stop googling your info. I rather debate with someone who has read the material even if they're incompetent.

If you don't prove Points: A, B and C it would be clear that you gave up and that you're posting false info.

I like how you try to take charge of this debate.... and yet go nowhere with it.

P.S. All of my statements are perfect clear (unlike yours which tend to contradict eachother - this is gramaticly correct, by the way) so don't twist my words

1. No they're not. I'd like a second opinion on who can understand all of what you're saying, but it's not important. Quit being butthurt, kiddo.

2. You stole the words right outta my mouth.

What? Where's the blitz? Santana poking Joseph in the forehead? Are you srs? That's not a fucking blitz. Do you even know what a speedblitz is? Joseph directly reacted to the attack. He even said "wha?" right before the attack connected. Joseph didn't even know what Santana was about do do given the situation he was in. What did you want him to do to prove that he could react to it? Dodge the finger? Joseph was able to react to Santana just fine throughout their entire fight. YOU need to analyze a lot better/

I'll sum up what you have to do for you. Prove that the characters in scenario 2 (other than Goku) have some defense against their blood being completely frozen.... or concede. You won't find the proof, of course, since they've always been beated down by Dio, but do try. All you've done is demonstrated to everyone that you don't know what you're talking about and you're blatantly downplaying Dio Brando and JJBA overall.

Post by TheVectorPrime (269 posts) See mini bio Level 9

@phantomrant: I haven't see so much BS in some post for great amount of time. By the way if I'm moron than you're the dumbest idiot ever on the face of the planet. That's in case I'm moron, but I'm not. So in reality you're just an idiot kid. Since you failed to prove what I aksed for it's quite obvious to everyone that you gave up. And now you're just posting BS in order to have the last word. But I'm not going to alow you that satisfaction. You were already owned, now you're going to get owned even more. Unfortenatelly lack of inteligence permits you to see THAT YOU'RE CHASING YOUR OWN TAIL. Just to point out some idiotic statements of yours:

1. You don't caring about durability only proves your stupidity. That's one of the most important thing you should though about. Everyone in gauntlet 2 has long range attack and in Gaunlet 1 there are guys who can chop Dio's head easily. No user who at least knows something about vs debating while deny DURABILITY. With this you only prove that you NEED TO BE EDUCATED MORE !

2. Nowhere in entire manga (all parts) was stated that someone has strenght which would alow him to achive building level destruction or that is FTL(only hanged Man was stated to be able to move as a light, thus having ligh speed movement speed) !!! THAT's YET ANOTHER GREAT LIE YOU POST !!! Strength = punching power simply proves that you're one fat ass lazy kid who should really take some sport. Strength and punching power are not equivalent (not even in Jojo's Bizarre adventure manga), and for the start just read this article http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Physical_strength. Pro boxer have greatest punching power, but are no where near strongest men in the world. You made yourself look funny !!!

3. The World can punch only if opponents are up to 10m close. And his power drasticly drops if the target is closer to 10m.

4. I said EXCEPT ALUCARD. LEARN TO READ FIRST AND THAN COME TO DEBATE !

5. Yes you denied. Reread your previous posts. In order to be effective they need to be up to 10m close. In any case Dio needs to cross some distance since he would be risking too much if he is close to them. And since he was STATED TO BE AS FAST AS CHEETAH 9 SECONDS WILL PASS VERY QUICK. By the way there is no indication or statement ot feat confirming World is FTL. He matched Star Platinum, so Hulk matched Silver Surfer. In order for some character to be light speedr or above he needs:

- to perform a feat in nanosecond or less on panel or similar ( 1 000 000 000 punches per second)

- to be stated as light speeder or faster

6. i see that you don't even know to count since you skiped this one :-)

7. That's what you thinking and it has nothing to do with reality.

8. time stop spam will only prolong Dio's defeat.

- even current Ichigo is a town level -that's going by OBD since you colect your info there and that's enough since I wont' go of topic analyzing Ichigo any more. And Dante won't even feel the freezing.

- Gap between city block and building buster is rreally huge. Learn some physics and than take look at orders of magnitude on naruto forums or here : http://deadliestfictionalwarrior.wikispaces.com/Comprehensive+Energy+Scale . Anyway this was a clear example of you atempting to "slip away" with "corecting" the meaning of your statements.

Second part

1. Insignificant

2. Durability depends mostly by physical status. It's proportional to physical status. Too bad it doesn't fit your case so you must deny that obvious fact. Well you made yourself look silly again. Every users who has some knowledge will agree with me.

3. Hahaha

Third part

1. Already did.

2. This contradicts the second statement in second paragraph. Decide what your opinion is.

3. Now you're terrible, with intentional postin of hyperboles and fan fiction.

Emerald Splash is not FTL. Please post evidance to support your claim. Oh too bad you can't Since Hierophant Green only has B for speed. Liying again.

First scan you posted only proves that you're biased liar. There is nothing which indicates that beam from Red Stone of Asia was mostly light. It could be based on fire for example. What evidance do you have to support your theory ? If it was light speed, who comes that everyone(regular humans) could follow it's movement ? Your silly desperate and you're going to twist scans to fit your case. Too bad I'm not some newbie...

Second scan Dio hyping his stand. Like I said decide what you want. You're using databook as evidence for Star Platinum being FTL (only thing which states something like that so far), therefore going by the same databook Star Platinum is strongest. In manga Dio statement contradict with databook, so BY PLAIN LOGIC YOU CAN'T USE BOTH ! DECIDE WHAT YOU WANT SINCE I WILL ACCEPT DIO'S STATEMENT (BY THE WAY I NEVER DENIED IT, REREAD MY PREVIOUS POSTS AND YOU'LL SEE THAT I STATED GOING BY DATABOOK THAT SP IS STRONGEST) BUT IN THAT CASE WORLD IS NO WHERE NEAR LIGHT SPEED SINCE MANGA SHOWS IT CLEARLY.

- Too bad both Goku and Vegeta have clear durability feats which are above anything HST members can dish out. This is not the case with Jojo's Bizarre Adventure. Since most of the so called "high end feats" are taken out of the contest or missinterpreterd. Best example is so called "Cars tanking vulcanic eruption". In manga it didn't happen. Since both he and Joseph were standing on a large rock platform which was ejected by eruption. So non of them tanked anything. And later Cars was pierced by several pieces of vulacanic ejecta (small rocks) which don't have no where near energy of city block buster like MOAB bomb let alone vulcanic eruption. Or wanking Cars adaptive evolution to extreme.

Dio alone doens't have large building level punches. We already settled that. He is large wall buster at best. Like thug turned into vampire who made a large crater in the wall and destroyed his fist - since stone mask doens't increase durability. You didn't state that Parker would win, you stated that Dio clears Gauntlet 1 no problem.

Yet another stupidity you posted (in a long list of all stupidities). If it cuts stone it can cut steel ? Sure it can cut adamantium as well. Asking you to prove this stupidity (just for fun of seeing you helpless) would make even me look silly. I'll just say this. Steel is primary material used for cutting stone. Just google to see some tools(made of steel) used for stone cutting. And titanium steel is far more tougher than steel. It was stated numeorus times that Luke Cage has skin as tough as titanium steel, not to mention that when he needed a surgery, doctors could't cut his skin with medicine tools - which are by the way made of stainless-steel(also much tougher than regular steel) aloy.

So you ask me to prve that characters in gauntlet 2 can ednure freezing. Well I will. Everyone in Gauntlet 2 (except for Alucard) have the ability to make their aura stronger or some aura based powers. That's enought to overcome freezing. Since if Jonathan could do it by burning his hands and converting energy of fire into ripple those guys will do it far better with their aura based powers.

Alucard is the only one who's true form is that of Lovecraftian abomination. He can control his own blood that's enough said. Not to mention that his true form - the abomination made of some dark matter is basicly bloodless since he only bleeds when in human form.

Bonus: Luke cage can endure freezing since regular human Jonathan endured it. Parker is too agile and fast for Dio(fast as cheetah) to touch him and Dio won't be able to move when webbed (web is strong enough to hold down even the likes of Rhino).

P.S. You contradicting your previous statement with each new post, only proves that you already accepted that you're owned and lost the debate. Only your pride doesn't alow you to say: " Ok man you got the point I was wrong" . Unfortenatelly this onnly makes you look dumb. Good debater admits when he was wrong. Bad behave likes troll and spams the thread with the same thing.

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