Destructor asura vs. Gogeta super saiyan 4

Topic started by eddz99 on Dec. 10, 2012. Last post by mypasswordis1234 1 year, 9 months ago.
Post by SpeedForceSpider (4,967 posts) See mini bio Level 15

Asura breaks Gogeta's jaw.

Post by valfranx (194 posts) See mini bio Level 10

ss4 gogeta is multiversal:

multiversal >>>>>> universal >>>>>> galáxy buster >>>>>>>> star buster.

dbz universe is a multiverse, Omega Shenron, destroy the multiverse, more gogeta ssj4 is stronger than him.

Post by TheNeutralOne (1,016 posts) See mini bio Level 10

I don't know about this universal or multiversal destroyer crap they are talking about but at the least saiyans are galaxy busters. People make it sound so strange that they should be able to destroy planets and galaxies easily but in actuality it is there legit job. They just do it efficiently. For gods sake they sent a baby straight out the womb to turn earth into a waste land in order to sell it to someone. A baby for turnips sake @_@.

But yea goku and those are faster than light. If you disagree you probably are only doing it because that is the only argument keeping the characters you like safe from them. Dragon ball z isn't the same as other shows where they say "oh my gosh look at goku running at light speed" because feats of speed were proven way back in dragon ball. As a child goku and krillin were training with roshi and if i remember correctly at that point they could disappear and reappear in the place they were running too. Speed feats were then surpassed further during the last tournament in DB when krillin along with tien and yamcha and chaotzu if i remember correctly were about to be late but then entered the city, got to the arena, signed up and said hey to goku and the gang before the pen even realized it was probably used to write. They all entered the area,signed up and said hey before the pen could even touch the table =\/.

Like seriously how many times have you seen them enter fights and normal humans cannot follow their movements? All they can do is hear them. Now pardon me but I do believe that is quite faster if not the speed of light. Unless you want to believe they enter some new dimension and start duking it out there where people can't see but thats ridiculous. The only reason the z fighters can "see" fights is because they sense the energy and also because their eyes become accustomed to such speed.

But idk I guess maybe some people just don't want to give DBZ the respect it deserves because it shat on their favourite characters at some point.

(inb4 ppl say dbz is one of their favourite anime and aren't discriminating)

Post by ReiKai (3,517 posts) See mini bio Level 10
Shades Dash: Not FTL. He just moved faster than Tien could activate the Technique. And as we have seen, everytime Solar Flare is used, the one doing it is Closing Their Eyes. That is to avoid getting blinded themselves. Not to mention everyone was looking at Tien, not Goku. No one is FTL at this stage or anywhere close to it. It's been disproven.
 
Moonbusting: Roshi's is ambiguous due to the pure Fantasy style Toriyama applied in the original series. Roshi went from blowing up a mountain to blowing up the moon, and then lost to King Piccolo who nuked cities. Ultimately Power Levels are inconsistent and virtually meaningless. Piccolo's moonbusting is the only feasable one as it continued to remain through the series. I've already calc'd the beam at around 1/3rd lightspeed. Which can still be argued that it accelerated greatly after escaping Earth's gravity.
 
Lightning Dodge: Filler garbage. There is no lightning dodging in the Original Manga. Which makes it a contradiction, which means it's non-canon.
 
Lord Slug: Non-Canon in its entirety. 100xKaioKen does not exist. That would make it equivalent to SS2, which was not even remotely feasible at the time as it was Pre-Namek. An since it does not state this "official guide" is, we know it's complete bullshit.
 
Otherworld Tournament: Filler. Again, non-canon.
 
Dead Zone Movie: May not be considered canon. Also, not a black hole. It's a dimensional rift. And it connects only to the Dead Zone. The Garlic Jr. mini-saga is also Non-Canon.
 
Cooler's Revenge: Non-Canon. Not that it matters. Not impressive there anyway. Yasha (Asura's Wrath) split the ground with a karate chop and forced the Bramahstra's head (Object the Size of a Planet) to turn by kicking it. Cooler didn't split the ground anymore than Frieza's wave cutter did.
 
Pre-Cell Games: Again, does not show in the Original Manga. Which makes it non-canon. Which doesn't even matter since DBZ'ers can break mountains with clashing blows anyway. Nvm that Goku was hit with an actual landmass thrown at him by Frieza, which is actually more impressive. Neither of which even compares to hitting a man the size of a mountain so hard he's thrown into far outer orbit (Refer to Asura vs Wyzen).
 
Trunks Arrival: Frieza survived Namek due to his alien biology. Cutting him up doesn't mean Trunks is hitting harder than a planet. Slash/Piercing moves require less effort than kinetic ones. Also, Goku charged his finger with Ki to block the sword. They do not have planet-busting strength levels.
 
Vegeta Flashback: Non-Canon. Purely non-canon. Does not exist in the Original Manga.
 
Cooler/Brolly Sun Shot: Again, non-canon. Don't even bother.
 
Bojack Unbound: Again, Non-Canon movie garbage.
 
Brolly Galaxy Bust: Non-canon to anyone besides Brolly Himself.
 
Buu History: Doesn't even matter. Spending years destroying a galaxy by busting one planet after another is meaningless.
 
Janemba: Non-Canon. Do I have to say anything more or is this starting to sink in yet?
 
Mysic Buu Scream: Hyperbole. It's not proven to cause the universe to collapse. Clearly not multiversal. It never happened, so there's no evidence. Everyone knows is Hyperbole.
 
Black Star Dragonballs: Considered universe-level threat, not a Universe Buster. It corrupts and corrodes over an extended period of time and would Gradually destroy galaxies. Really no different than Kid Buu spending years doing the same thing.
 
Nuke heat: Ki blasts =/= Nuclear Fire. Different energies with different results. The two aren't remotely comparable.
 
DBU: Nebula are not consisted of galaxies. They are collections of stars. Innumerable simply means "We don't bother counting". It's poetic license. There is no actual evidence to suggest DBZ galaxy is any larger than our own.
 
Return of Cooler: Non-Canon.
 
The rest is, of course, more mindless bullshit. The fact you believe any of that and try to utilize Non-Canon movies is an absolute joke. I cannot believe you'd waste someone's life watching such inane and pointless garbage as that.
Post by Supreme Marvel (5,142 posts) See mini bio Level 12

@ReiKai said:

Moonbusting: Roshi's is ambiguous due to the pure Fantasy style Toriyama applied in the original series. Roshi went from blowing up a mountain to blowing up the moon, and then lost to King Piccolo who nuked cities. Ultimately Power Levels are inconsistent and virtually meaningless. Piccolo's moonbusting is the only feasable one as it continued to remain through the series. I've already calc'd the beam at around 1/3rd lightspeed. Which can still be argued that it accelerated greatly after escaping Earth's gravity.

He is using his energy, right? Energy has mass. Anything that has mass can't go light speed or beyond. So I'm putting that to people didn't know or realise that.

I also think that Earth in the DB world is smaller.

Post by valfranx (194 posts) See mini bio Level 10

@ReiKai: Canon question:

“The term canon, with respect to works of fiction, refers to the overall set of story lines, premises, settings, and characters offered by the source media text. Secondly, it is used as a descriptor of specific incidents, relationships, or story arcs that take place within the overall canon. Thus, all officially released Dragon Ball media falls within the definition of the term canon."

the highest level of canon is the manga Dragon Ball. The second highest level of canon in Dragon Ball is the three-part anime series. The third highest is the movies and OVA’s. The fourth higest is games.

you really did not watch the dbz movie 1, garlick, explains that the death zone ís a black hole, that even light not can escape and everything that enters the zone of death and destroyed.

because you are still debating the issue of canon, being that we are discussing a character out, of the manga that is designed to be powerful. I can not do anything if the characters outside the manga were created to do more than powerful than dbz manga and your own dear asura, accept the fact that gogeta ssj4 and too out of scale for the asura universe.

Post by ReiKai (3,517 posts) See mini bio Level 10
The only Canon is the Manga. Based on that is the Anime, and the corrected version of which is DBZ Kai which Removes the Filler and corrects a number of Mistranslations that were prevalent in the older Animated adaptation. The movies are Non-Canon. Everyone knows this. The only ones that potentially are are; "Bardock: Father of Goku" and "History of Future Trunks".
 
The fact you do not understand such simple things is evidence of your inability to debate appropriately. The sheer level of ignorance is on par with previous DBZ Fanboys that have come and been backhanded by the staff for repeated trolling.
 
@Supreme Marvel said:

He is using his energy, right? Energy has mass. Anything that has mass can't go light speed or beyond. So I'm putting that to people didn't know or realise that.

I also think that Earth in the DB world is smaller.


Fiction does not follow Real World Physics. So that is completely moot.
Post by niBBit (664 posts) See mini bio Level 11

@TheNeutralOne: I agree with the speed thing, i posted this on page 2:

I believe that DBZ character are FTL. When Yamcha and the Saibamen where fighting Kid Gohan could't even follow there movements, it was untill Piccolo told Gohan to look for their energy was he able to spot them. Now we have a normal kid and has normal perception like you and me and he could't follow there movements so Yamcha can move faster than you can see. Like i said Gohan is just a normal kid with eyes like you and me and he could only hear them and could only see them when he used his energy.

Frieza fired his Death Beam at Dende and the entire group could't even follow it. Piccolo/Gohan/Krillin are alot stronger then they where against Nappa and Vegeta and have better control over their power (Gohan for example) yet not even Piccolo who was fused with Nail could't follow Frieza's Death Beam. Goku showed up and EASILY delected multiple Death Beams like it was nothing. If we go back a little to the Ginyu Force, Vegeta tossed a Dragonball miles away and then Burter flew up, grabbed the Dragonball and was back before Krillen and Gohan could turn their heads. When Goku showed up he moved so fast that even Burter could't follow him. Jeice fired a couple of energy beams at Goku and Goku was moving so fast that it seemed he was standing still.

When Frieza was at 50% of his power he was moving so fast that Goku could't follow him, and i quote *how could i beat him if i can't see him* Frieza increased his power and became faster than Goku and he was at 60 million. Goku then turned SSJ and was dodging Frieza's close up Death Beams like it was nothing. Now if Yamcha with a PL of around 1400 (iirc) can move so fast that Gohan could't even see him and Frieza in his Final Form (base) at 30 million could fire Death Beams that even Piccolo could't follow imagine Goku SSJ at 150 million. Scratch that lets skip all that and go to an SSJ3. Scratch that and go to Gogeta/Vegito.

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Yes i agree that alot of people downplay DBZ alot (imo). On various sites where characters battle i see alot of battles like (Character A vs Character B) and they say that Character A wins because he's fast not Zoom/Flash fast but still fast so he wins pure on Speed, then if Character A is replaced with Goku then suddenly Goku auto loses dispite Goku having even greater speed than the previous character.

Some of my real life friends also make the mistake other people do with certain scans posted in these treads. Lets say Gladiator from Marvel (example) is strong enough to punch Hulk out and this lvl of powers is a constant, then suddenly they see a scan from Gladiator owning Zeus and Odin like its nothing, and suddenly they use that inconsistent showing of Gladiator for every battle he's in but if those people would actually read those comics in the first place and not only looking at a scan then they would figure out that Gladiator was amped up or that another writer has taken over the story like the infamous Loeb Force. Comics do have multiple writers and characters switch from one witer to another and mess everything up like Shuma-Gorath:

There was a comic where all the Demons where gathering like Mephisto/Satanish and where fighting over witch one could sit next to Satan (iirc), and in that comic you see Shuma-Gorath and Set in their witch is hilarious because Shuma is above such things and doesn't care what some Hell-Lords are thinking, in fact Shuma how he is would proably eat everyone there and if some of you don't know how strong Shuma is? Eternity shat his pants and Sise-Neg dreaded facing him in combat and Dr.Strange only beat him when he got all the powers from Arioch......yeah...he would butcher all the Hell-Lord like nothing. But then come the Mephisto fans and take that comic way out of proportion and use the Writer>>>you're opinion card dispite the sheer stupidity of it all. That said writer spat on the Shuma-Gorath origin witch is nothing new as some comic writers are fans themself and sometimes Up a certain character to ridiculous degree.

All i'm saying is that i've seen alot of battles witch includes DBZ vs Savage Hulk (example) and then post scans of Hulk beating the ever living crap out of Silver Surfer in a comic from the 50's and then say Hulk>>>Gotenks SSJ3. Anyway i'm guessing i'm gonna be called a DBZ tard for this as most people do when you talk about DBZ like this but what the hell :)

Post by valfranx (194 posts) See mini bio Level 10

is the fact that you are diverting the subject of topic with subject canon, something that has nothing to do with the discussion of the topic, the character discussed here is ssj4 gogeta, discuss what is canon or not, will not make asura wins something here, and we are using characters outside the manga, which is very out of scale with respect to firepower, so ssj4 gogeta wins the fight.

on the question of the canon already explained to you in the post above. Now if you talk of a specific canon, the story is different. feats of anime still are official, is not because they do not appear in the manga that makes characters like ssj4 gogeta be weak at, is the opposite. characters are more powerful precisely because it has better feats and unique, in other words, when we talk about the issue being feats canon or non-canon, we're talking about the media that feat shall belong, as we are using here the anime version, feats of anime are canon with anime ever made unique as gogeta ssj fight with broly, is a feat just to canon the game, it can not be used in other media as movies.

Post by DBZ_universe (15,725 posts) See mini bio Level 17

@ReiKai: How fast is Asura?

Post by ReiKai (3,517 posts) See mini bio Level 10
Destructor Asura was streaking across space after Chakravartin at FTL speeds. Prior to that he was hypersonic to high-hypersonic. As Berserker Asura the beams he was unleashing were relativistic as they streaked from Ground Level to outer orbit within a second or two at longest and were wiping out an entire fleet of ships.
 
Check about 8:15 in when he starts to snap.
  
Post by Supreme Marvel (5,142 posts) See mini bio Level 12

@ReiKai said:

@Supreme Marvel said:

He is using his energy, right? Energy has mass. Anything that has mass can't go light speed or beyond. So I'm putting that to people didn't know or realise that.

I also think that Earth in the DB world is smaller.

Fiction does not follow Real World Physics. So that is completely moot.

I know, but why are you using light speed if physics in the Dragon Ball world is clearly different to our own. Light speed in their world might be a different speed.

Post by ReiKai (3,517 posts) See mini bio Level 10
Unless otherwise stated in that Fiction, the rate at which light travels does not change. The only series I have ever seen that would say differently is Futurama.
Post by Supreme Marvel (5,142 posts) See mini bio Level 12

@ReiKai said:

Unless otherwise stated in that Fiction, the rate at which light travels does not change. The only series I have ever seen that would say differently is Futurama.

Then something that has mass can't go the speed of light because they (Z Warriors) have never been stated to go that speed. The only thing is Goku's IT but I see that as teleportation.

Post by ReiKai (3,517 posts) See mini bio Level 10
Then tell that to every Sci-Fi series and fiction in the world that has ships, people, creatures and whathaveyou, zipping across space and reality at multiple FTL speeds despite possessing "mass".  Fiction is not Bound by real world physics and we have Evidence and calculated estimations that place the Z-crew in the Lower FTL category by EoS.
 
Instant Transmission IS Teleportation and nothing else.
Post by Supreme Marvel (5,142 posts) See mini bio Level 12

@ReiKai: Well my point is, they've never stated they can go beyond it.

Characters in say, comics, we know some of them can go beyond light speed because it's stated while they're doing it.

Other go by theories, especially in the DB world. They try and use science to prove what they want, but they only see what they want, you bring science into it to contradict them, they wave it away as nonsense because it's "fantasy". Yet they allow it to benefit them.

Post by Supreme Marvel (5,142 posts) See mini bio Level 12

@ReiKai: Just to let you know, I'm not saying you're wrong about anything. Just giving you more stuff to possible use against the ongrowing fanbase of 'Everything out of Context Club'.

Post by ReiKai (3,517 posts) See mini bio Level 10
Actually, correction. We don't go by a character stating they can go FTL. In Comics, we know these things mainly because the Narrator is Telling Us how fast they are going. In DBZ, the Narrator is almost never present, so we have to go by visuals and time represented in those scenes. I would in fact suggest people go look up Death Battle (I'm not linking it) and see all their previews and teasers for the "Superman vs Goku" battle.
Post by waybig1010101 (3,268 posts) See mini bio Level 14

http://www.animevice.com/dragon-ball/10-1/how-fast-are-dbz-characters/97-314493/

Post by Supreme Marvel (5,142 posts) See mini bio Level 12

@waybig1010101 said:

http://www.animevice.com/dragon-ball/10-1/how-fast-are-dbz-characters/97-314493/

Majority of the scans are fan-subbed.

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