@taichokage said:Good debate guys. I'm not certain myself. I wish I knew more about Shuma. Sometimes wiki checking isn't enough. It essentially comes down to one point, which is stronger the unstoppable force (Shuma's energy eating) or the immovable object (Dispel Bound)?
Both are relative. "unstoppable" "immovable" are relative terms.
Heck I will use Math as an example.
In Math there are infinites but they aren't the same size in concept.
Prime Number infinite vs. Positive Numbers infinite? THe latter is more in quantity despite being both infinite.
The point is though Shuma Gorath at his best always operated on a much higher scale. Problem is that he has few appearances.
@321zigzag1: Disregarding everything else, considering that he is multiversal+, am I to simply assume DS has no dominion over Shuma? Certainly you don't believe that when a stronger than Darsh wizard (though by behavior both DS and strange dwell in the same level of magic) beats on Shuma,
All you have is Dispel Bound.
What exactly do I have a reason to believe DS can do better than what Death the concept herself did in Cancerverse?
What exactly do I have a reason to believe DS can do better than what Sise Neg can do?
@321zigzag1: DS would not be capable of doing the same thing? Even Strange was taking dominion over foreign powers and beings in his path to supremecy, the exact same thing DS has done.
You are arguing more on concepts than just more on feats. Be more specific in what you are saying on what DS did. You say DS did what STrange did.
Show me. Surely it wouldn't be too difficult?
Just because they both did something similar doesn't automatically translate they are on the same level.
For example Avatar State Aang and Rikudo Sennin are conceptually similar. Yet by feats they are clearly not.
You seem to be going on a tangent DS being a magic user automatically grants STrange feats to him. Except feats are the most important.
All you argued was Dispel Bound and you first initially claimed it was invincible but then you admitted they can be broken. It's all relative.
Here I will start things off then.
Classic Strange fluctuates. Normally he would be weaker than DS by a strong margin but at his best he operates universal to beyond. For example he can be an avatar for Eternity. His power fluctuation also depends on his conjuring power.
Normally Shuma Gorath's showings on earth are pitiful to his real self in his actual dimension with the exception of Sise Neg. But I am assuming Shuma Gorath is at his best the neutral dimension can allow.
@321zigzag1: If I'm to simply accept based on nothing, I guess I should quit? lol. iight. I see how it is.
You never bothered to even counter Death example or Sise Neg example yet you call it nothing.
For what purpose?
Who told you it was nothing?
Dispel Bound is not everything I have as an argument. You might not have been listening, but didn't I say DS broke the fabric of reality? Aka big bang level explosion required behind it. Anyway, I quit because you don't appear to want to continue debating, simply due to Shuma being the superior entity, and I have no claim against that.
Here's Lucifer explaining how much power it would require to break the reality between dimensions, which was what they were trying to do to break DS out. However, in the fight, DS dealt and tanked such realive force, easily explaining. Like I said before, if I am to simply accept nothing can be done against Shuma, then there is little use in trying to debate. The argument that Dispel Bound is invincible, as you put it, has more to do with the fact DS can keep it going for eternity given if Shuma is not able to attack as many times. DS's speed is so great, he was able to go towards infinity to break Uriel's Dispel Bound, emerging out as superior.
Here's DS dealing and taking reality busting attacks.
This feat, according to Lucifer, requires energy relative to the creation of the universe - Big Bang. Thats all I have to say here, really. Current DS, the one fighting Porno Diano, is even stronger. Hes putting out Galaxy busting+ attacks in a restricted state. If you want to debate on, I have said DS is not a mere galaxy buster. He casually destroys Galaxies.