Cooler vs Goten and Trunks

Topic started by XImpossibruX on Aug. 26, 2012. Last post by ReiKai 2 years, 1 month ago.
Post by shonen (846 posts) See mini bio Level 9
@ReiKai said:

Bardock had sparks on him when he first went SSJ, but it was still just SSJ. And again adding Baby inside him and yet again no further forms shown. What you're suggesting is no different than those people who 'suggest' Cell can system bust. Words were said, no evidence was given. I'm going by what we've Seen and what numbers we've been given.

What numbers were given ? Please show because these numbers are for Budokai 3, which is a video game and are stand alone for this video game not the actual cannon series.
 
Also like I said GT and animated movies followed different systems. In GT no sparks were ever shown except for that one instant . So you couldn't  differentiate a SSJ and SSJ2 which says something about what the animators were trying to convey for that scene.
 
I've already established a plausible argument that 
 
1. People involved in fusion dance  have no memory of what they did when they are fused because the fusion character is a new person as stated by daizenshuu.
 
2. Trunks and Goten are aware and have recollection of Ultra SSJ as stated by them in the manga. They have no reason to lie. Japanese manga are not american comics in story telling. Authors don't always have to show the actually happen, character statement is enough sometimes.
 
3. In conclusion it seems to suggest that Trunks and Goten did acquire the Ultra SSJ transformation.
 
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Post by EganTheVile1 (1,511 posts) See mini bio Level 20

@shonen said:

@EganTheVile1 said:

@shonen said:

@XImpossibruX said:

@Sonata said:

@XImpossibruX: Metal Cooler would give them a tougher fight, the original Cooler not so much.

It's hilarious how some people on the Vine think Final Form Cooler can beat 2 Super Saiyans.

The same 2 Super Saiyans who gave Android 18 a good fight, and she is way above Early SSj level.

They didn't really give 18 a good fight. She was holding back the hold time.

She was not holding back, she just realized that she was fighting Trunks and Goten who were wearing the Mighty Mask costume and cut the costume in half revealing who they were and getting them DQ'd... It was the best tactic she could use to win, as for the question at hand, Cooler gave base level Goku a decent fight, and was undoubtedly stronger then his brother or father, but he still fell short against an SSJ, now it could be argued Trunks and Goten are no where near Goku's skill, but since they achieved fusion, and I did not see a no fusion clause, I would say that since they have the ability to become Gotenks, an SSJ 3 they have an edge, beyond that since we are talking a movie continuity character like Cooler, I will point out that they survived against Broly, a stronger character.

I'm not going through this explanation again. please refer to my post from the last 2 pages.

You can't rewrite the established power level of Cooler, Goten, and Trunks just because you want Cooler to win, there is a reason the majority are choosing Goten and Trunks over Cooler, go into these battle discussions neutral and don't be offended when people disagree

Post by shonen (846 posts) See mini bio Level 9
@EganTheVile1 said:

@shonen said:

@EganTheVile1 said:

@shonen said:

@XImpossibruX said:

@Sonata said:

@XImpossibruX: Metal Cooler would give them a tougher fight, the original Cooler not so much.

It's hilarious how some people on the Vine think Final Form Cooler can beat 2 Super Saiyans.

The same 2 Super Saiyans who gave Android 18 a good fight, and she is way above Early SSj level.

They didn't really give 18 a good fight. She was holding back the hold time.

She was not holding back, she just realized that she was fighting Trunks and Goten who were wearing the Mighty Mask costume and cut the costume in half revealing who they were and getting them DQ'd... It was the best tactic she could use to win, as for the question at hand, Cooler gave base level Goku a decent fight, and was undoubtedly stronger then his brother or father, but he still fell short against an SSJ, now it could be argued Trunks and Goten are no where near Goku's skill, but since they achieved fusion, and I did not see a no fusion clause, I would say that since they have the ability to become Gotenks, an SSJ 3 they have an edge, beyond that since we are talking a movie continuity character like Cooler, I will point out that they survived against Broly, a stronger character.

I'm not going through this explanation again. please refer to my post from the last 2 pages.

You can't rewrite the established power level of Cooler, Goten, and Trunks just because you want Cooler to win, there is a reason the majority are choosing Goten and Trunks over Cooler, go into these battle discussions neutral and don't be offended when people disagree

Please look at the thread before you post. I said Goten and Triunks win, BUT THEY are not on 18 LEVEL. pre ROSAT. Also those power lvel listed for cooler are for a game called budokai 3 which is non cannon.
Post by ReiKai (3,530 posts) See mini bio Level 10
And note Cooler is a Non-Canon character to begin with and the scan from the magazine doesn't contradict Cooler's showings, only provides powerscaling for him. Also the Story in Budokai 3 is non-canon, IE to the movies and Main series since it's more of a What If game. However the Biography Pages for the Characters are Canon and basically tell us things we already know about the characters.
 
Also, you claim Goten and Trunks are on par with Goku during a certain period of time, yet it's not proven or established that they are. In fact, from all evidence shown, only as SS3 Gotenks are they even comparable with SS3 Goku, perhaps a little higher. But that isn't just Goten+Trunks as the Fusion applies a multiplication factor (that goes with Potara Fusion as well). As, really, Goten and Trunks are about 1/4th of Goku by Buu Saga, to which Vegeta has only said that Goku was stronger than Gohan was when Gohan beat Cell. Never says by how much.
 
Now, let me point out that there's no way of actually telling how strong Goku was during Android Saga because he got hit with the Heart Virus at the very beginning and while he did knock around #19 a bit, his blows were virtually ineffective because of his illness. Which, I would have to say, makes Goku's appearance in Cooler's Revenge stronger than as he was in Main Canon until Post-ROSAT usage for the Cell Games, as Goku had received an undefined Zenkai upgrade in that movie.
 
I'm not saying Cooler wins, but I'm not saying he loses because these kids have powers they're not shown to have. I'm only saying the only way Goten and Trunks get a straight up victory is via Fusion.
Post by SpeedForceSpider (5,037 posts) See mini bio Level 15

@shonen: I agree with EganTheVile1. You tend to go overboard and get offended when someone's opinion differs from yours. You need to chill out.

Post by ReiKai (3,530 posts) See mini bio Level 10
I find it offensive that you think I'm offended by someone who seeks to ignore the fact he has no evidence for his claims and continues to act as though they are legitimate. Now if you want to Support his idea, that's your business. But until you guys can actually Prove any of it, then we have nothing to discuss.
Post by SpeedForceSpider (5,037 posts) See mini bio Level 15

@ReiKai: Are you mad again? If you are refering to my post it was in general.

Post by ReiKai (3,530 posts) See mini bio Level 10

Post by SpeedForceSpider (5,037 posts) See mini bio Level 15

@ReiKai:

Post by ReiKai (3,530 posts) See mini bio Level 10
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