http://www.comicvine.com/forums/battles/7/cooler-vs-goten-and-trunks/689976/?page=2
What are your opinions on this? I think it's hilarious.
PS. Some people believe Cooler can take down SSJ Goten and Trunks
Battles
Forums » Battles » Cooler vs Goten and TrunksCooler vs Goten and Trunks
Topic started by XImpossibruX on Aug. 26, 2012.
Last post by ReiKai 8 months, 3 weeks ago.
@Sonata said:
@XImpossibruX: Metal Cooler would give them a tougher fight, the original Cooler not so much.
It's hilarious how some people on the Vine think Final Form Cooler can beat 2 Super Saiyans.
The same 2 Super Saiyans who gave Android 18 a good fight, and she is way above Early SSj level.
@XImpossibruX said:
@Sonata said:
@XImpossibruX: Metal Cooler would give them a tougher fight, the original Cooler not so much.It's hilarious how some people on the Vine think Final Form Cooler can beat 2 Super Saiyans.
The same 2 Super Saiyans who gave Android 18 a good fight, and she is way above Early SSj level.
They didn't really give 18 a good fight. She was holding back the hold time.
@shonen said:
@XImpossibruX said:
@Sonata said:
@XImpossibruX: Metal Cooler would give them a tougher fight, the original Cooler not so much.It's hilarious how some people on the Vine think Final Form Cooler can beat 2 Super Saiyans.
The same 2 Super Saiyans who gave Android 18 a good fight, and she is way above Early SSj level.
They didn't really give 18 a good fight. She was holding back the hold time.
Well they surprised her. Still Goten and Trunks roflstomp Cooler
@XImpossibruX said:
@shonen said:
@XImpossibruX said:
@Sonata said:
@XImpossibruX: Metal Cooler would give them a tougher fight, the original Cooler not so much.It's hilarious how some people on the Vine think Final Form Cooler can beat 2 Super Saiyans.
The same 2 Super Saiyans who gave Android 18 a good fight, and she is way above Early SSj level.
They didn't really give 18 a good fight. She was holding back the hold time.
Well they surprised her. Still Goten and Trunks roflstomp Cooler
This is one of the reason you shouldn't be using fan translations.
Chapter: 453 (DBZ 259), P12.4, P13.1
Context: after Trunks’ ki blast explodes
No.18: “Yo-you’ve got to be kidding…That energy bullet had absolutely incredible speed and destructive power…Co-could it be that those squirts have outrageous power?…This is dangerous! I’ve got to settle this fight soon!”
--
In the context of the fight all she is really saying is that the kids attack have great destructive power, and speed for their age. This does not mean they are fighting even with her in power, or even stronger than her for that matter.
Take into account for one thing.
1. Android 18 wants to win the prize money,and killing would disqualify her. Before Mighty mask turned SSJ she considered him a regular human and so would be holding back so as not to kill him. The entire fight she is shown beating Goten and Trunks with the latter being shown frustrated and angry.
2. Android 18, knows that Goten and Trunks are in the suit once they turn SSJ,and she also knows from Goten and Trunks battle that Goten lacks ki control,and is unaware of who is firing the shots. It would be rather dangerous to let them fire off another shot and accidentally kill a lot of people at the stadium or even within Satan city. This is why she says she has to end the fight soon not for her safety but for those of the people around her.
In a later feature, Goku and Vegeta feel someone as tough as Frieza would be a good match for the boys. Cooler is stronger than Frieza. If they aren't allowed Fusion Dance, then taking on Cooler's Ultimate Form would be rather challenging for both sides. If this is Meta-Cooler, well then they are boned because he can create a thousand of himself and as long as he doesn't lead them inside the Big Getti Star, then they have no means by which to beat him.
Also, people thinking "Cooler lost to just SSJ Goku". They forget that this was Post-Namek Goku. Returning home from training on an alien world, who was a match for Trunks who dispatched Frieza effortlessly. The "Cooler's Revenge" movie was kind of a let down at the end, simply because they didn't make it a grand battle sequence. It was just "oop he Super Saiya-jin now he pwns you". It was kinda sad, considering Cooler is one of the Better movie villains.
Plus, people suggesting "Goten trained with Gohan" forgets that Gohan had been sitting on his ass for 7yrs and had to try and work himself back into shape before Hercule's World Tournament. And he wasn't exactly facing a Serious Gohan, especially since Gohan spent half the time teaching Gotenks how to fly with Videl.
Also, people thinking "Cooler lost to just SSJ Goku". They forget that this was Post-Namek Goku. Returning home from training on an alien world, who was a match for Trunks who dispatched Frieza effortlessly. The "Cooler's Revenge" movie was kind of a let down at the end, simply because they didn't make it a grand battle sequence. It was just "oop he Super Saiya-jin now he pwns you". It was kinda sad, considering Cooler is one of the Better movie villains.
Plus, people suggesting "Goten trained with Gohan" forgets that Gohan had been sitting on his ass for 7yrs and had to try and work himself back into shape before Hercule's World Tournament. And he wasn't exactly facing a Serious Gohan, especially since Gohan spent half the time teaching Gotenks how to fly with Videl.
@shonen: Exactly. DBZ characters Ki attacks can be increased ten fold at the very least. Piccolo had an PL of 300 or something and his SPC fired against Raditz was around 1400. Kid Gohan had an PL of 200.000 and he fired an Ki attack strong enough to delay Frieza in his third form. Android 18 was't going all-out against the boys, i know they where in those suit (Mighty Mask) and it should limit there fighting skill by somehwat but to say they where handicaped by like 50% is idiotic as the suit actually gave some advantages like Goten being able to kick Android 18 while she tried backstabbing them with a wierd kick. Trunks firing an Ki attack at 18 and her being scared doesn't mean Trunks will beat her in a straight up fight.
@niBBit: It doesn't matter. Holding back 18 is far above Namek Goku and Cooler who is way weaker. And back when Vegeta SSJ fought her, she laughed off his attacks he sure didn't surprise her. For the boys to even make her get surprised is a feat in itself. They stomp Cooler with ease.
She was Surprised because she didn't know it was them at first. And, as stated, she's not allowed to kill anyone. Also, harder to predict attacks from two people going at you at the same time than one, especially since Goten and Trunks were effectively attacking her independently while in the costume.
I'll also point out that Goku in the Cooler's Revenge movie was Surprised by the fact Cooler could gather and generate his energy at a faster rate than Frieza ever could. And while Trunks caught Frieza's giant blast effortlessly one-handed, Goku struggled to stave it off and countered it with his own blast. Neither of which actually beat Cooler, just forced him off-planet. What actually ended up beating him was being pinned between the combined blasts and the Sun.
I'll also point out that Goku in the Cooler's Revenge movie was Surprised by the fact Cooler could gather and generate his energy at a faster rate than Frieza ever could. And while Trunks caught Frieza's giant blast effortlessly one-handed, Goku struggled to stave it off and countered it with his own blast. Neither of which actually beat Cooler, just forced him off-planet. What actually ended up beating him was being pinned between the combined blasts and the Sun.
@ReiKai: Cooler was stronger than Mecha Frieza by a good margin so it is fair to say the Supernova he threw was more powerful. And blasting him away is beating him still. Even before, the fight clearly became one-sided after Goku turned into a SSJ. Cooler could no longer faze Goku with his punches so it is safe to say despite of how he died he couldn't win.
@SpeedForceSpider said:
Kinda the point I already made. The fault of the movie. Soon as Goku went SSJ, it was anticlimactic. They ruined the whole moment. But anyway, Cooler still could've won if he'd just nuked the planet and not shot the blast at Goku. Either way, Goten and Trunks aren't as strong as Goku is, nor has his experience in battle.@ReiKai: Cooler was stronger than Mecha Frieza by a good margin so it is fair to say the Supernova he threw was more powerful. And blasting him away is beating him still. Even before, the fight clearly became one-sided after Goku turned into a SSJ. Cooler could no longer faze Goku with his punches so it is safe to say despite of how he died he couldn't win.
@ReiKai: Well that's why the movies are terrible to use for debates. Furthermore, I agree for their lack of experience. However, I strongly disagree with them being weaker than that Goku especially Post ROST. That is illogical for Goku to put the hope of the universe on two brats weaker than his previous incarnation fusing together. Well, to each his own I suppose.
The point brought across that Android 18 wasn't impressed with Vegeta but was shocked by Trunks blast isn't as black and white as people think.It is analogous to this situation
Say you are a professional boxer, and your go up against boxer A, who is muscular. When Boxer A punches you, you already have a perception of how strong you would think his punches are, and so would not be fazed when they land on you.
However, say you go up against boxer B, who is a scrawny fellow. If Boxer B punches are equivalent to Boxer A punches you would be taken back by them because you weren't expecting that
. In short what I am trying to say that you wouldn't be expecting a little kid like trunks to have such power at such a young age, so you would be surprised by it.
--
My own personal interpretation
Trunks (Pre-ROSAT) = SSJ Vegeta (android arc), with Goten slightly weaker than him, probably equivalent to SSJ Trunks (Android arc).
It is one interpretation. However it was never clear how tough the boys were, and the Buu Saga was inconsistent. Heck, when they woke up on the Lookout, they attacked Mr Popo who was blocking their blows. Mr Popo whom hasn't seen any action since Goku attacked him as a child. And then we have an episode or short movie done by Toriyama that was meant to cut off the GT series, where they fight Abo and Cado (ex-Freeza minions). According to Tarble, Vegeta's younger brother (yes I know, no sense there either), they are each as strong as Freeza was (just never states which Form of Freeza or if he meant 50% or 100% forms). Goku says they are not much of a foe, but are perfect for the boys.
Regardless, there is no telling how tough the kids are because it was never made clear. I am of the mind that as SSJ, they are at least 2-3x Freeza's max. Individually, neither one could beat Cooler. Together, it'd be quite a challenge. Fusion just makes it a one-way battle.
Regardless, there is no telling how tough the kids are because it was never made clear. I am of the mind that as SSJ, they are at least 2-3x Freeza's max. Individually, neither one could beat Cooler. Together, it'd be quite a challenge. Fusion just makes it a one-way battle.
@ReiKai: Yeah remember when the boys went into the RoSaT to train and went from Gotenks SSJ to SSJ3 in a matter of days or weeks? Piccolo told Super Buu to wait for 1 hour but after 30 minutes he got impatiencend so Piccolo led Super Buu to the RoSaT using a detour buying them a couple of extra minutes so the boys where in the RoSaT for a short time but they still achieved SSJ3, hell when Trunks and Vegeta went into the RoSaT during the Cell Saga Trunks replied that it took Vegeta a couple of months to transform (Super Vegeta) its idiotic to think that the boys achieved SSJ2 and SSJ3 in such a short amount of time.
As for Abo and Kado, your right it was never sated witch version of Frieza Tarble was refering to. Not many (if any) have seen Frieza in his Final Form much less Tarble who was on another planet and is still using his scouter to detect PL's so to me i think he was refering to Frieza's first form when comparing Abo/Kado's PL's. The boys fought them pretty evenly and if (if) Tarble was refering to Frieza's first form who had an PL of around 530.000 than adding the SSJ multiplier puts the boys at around 265 Mil almost twice as strong as Goku when he went SSJ, witch in turn adds a whole lot of plot holes :)
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