Cloud and Zack vs Yusuke and Sensui

Topic started by supernova7005 on Aug. 20, 2013. Last post by DragonSlayerGilver 10 months, 2 weeks ago.
Post by supernova7005 (1,966 posts) See mini bio Level 15

VS

Cloud and Zack from FF7 Crisis Core vs Yusuke and Sensui from YYH Chapter Black Saga

Who wins?

Post by CerusSerenade (2,432 posts) See mini bio Level 10

Sensui and Yusuke were destroying mountains in their fight, when did Zack/Cloud do any such thing, espeically in Crisis Core where they are much weaker?

Post by SpeedForceSpider (4,803 posts) See mini bio Level 15

I'd love to side with Zack and Cloud but they get destroyed. Going by feats shown, they just don't compare to casual mountain busting.

Post by supernova7005 (1,966 posts) See mini bio Level 15

@SpeedForceSpider @CerusSerenade: CC Zack and Cloud are both around country level, just like Sensui and Yusuke.

Sephiroth in his weakest incarnation was able to casually cut through Jenova who tanked the Northern Crater's impact ground zero, that created a country wide crater. They nearly matched Seph.

Cloud also tanks a country level explosion later in FF7 (though its his somewhat stronger version)


So two solid country+ feats

Post by Dream (7,093 posts) See mini bio Level 20
Moderator

Agreeing that the two FF7 characters get slaughtered.

Aamir, how many times will it take for me and others to keep hammering into you that the calcs from Chaostheory are too flawed with scaling and assumptions to be seriously taken with Final Fantasy characters?

Post by xlab3000 (1,359 posts) See mini bio Level 10

Team 1

Post by supernova7005 (1,966 posts) See mini bio Level 15

@Dream: I haven't even used any calcs lol.

I just showed a video showing how Cloud survived a continent level explosion, and the ease with which Sephiroth cuts jenova, who has country level dura

@xlab3000 said:

Team 1

I agree. But with mid-high diff

Post by Dream (7,093 posts) See mini bio Level 20
Moderator

@supernova7005: We've seen them before. -_-*

Post by supernova7005 (1,966 posts) See mini bio Level 15

You guys are free to believe what you want, don't accuse me of wanking, but here's my evidence -

(If you disagree, you may have a discussion. Otherwise don't just troll, as its better if you rather ignore it and don't post at all.)

FF7 Feats :-

1. Cloud in FF7-AC (while severely weakened by Geostigma) can tank Bahamut SIN's Megaflare, which is a large city+ buster.

And what makes it impressive is that he does this using only his Buster sword, without using any of the side swords.

.......you see the small dot in the image? Yeah, that's Cloud.

Keep in mind, End of CC Zack >> Loz and Yazoo > Geostigmatized Cloud, making Zack casual city+ as well.

2. Fodder turks like Reno and Rude are capable of tanking Town+ level bombs exploding right in their hands

And they are completely unscathed after this explosion.....Without getting as much as a scratch!!

3. As clearly shown by Bugenhagen’s model, the world of FF7 is Earth: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f5u8c3E5CK8. This is once again shown in the Supernova animation.

Earth has a circumference of 40,000 km which means that the Northern Crater might actually be larger than Alaska:

Mind that Jenova ground-zero tanked this impact, making her durability country level.

Sephiroth in his weakest form (in CC), is able to casually cut through Jenova like nothing, making Sephiroth's attack potency country+ as well.

4. Prime Zack is capable of beating a summon spamming Moon-shattering attacks:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sgLhlTBIgfs (Summons use their own dimensions, so its not gameplay mechanics but a canon cutscene.)

Unfortunately, later, due to being injected with a second, “incompatible” strain of Jenova’s cells, he suffers from health fluctuations, causing his power to drop, and meets a rather miserable end. Something like Superman running out of solar energy...

5. The awakening of the weapons -

Cloud tanks a country level explosion later in FF7 and also survives falling to the core of the earth

So this is another country+ feat.

6. Sephiroth is capable of blocking the Midgar sister ray which can do this -

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZTQFVD9w6S4&feature=youtu.be&t=12m55s

So another country-continent level feat.

7. Sephiroth is capable of planetary-level telekinesis.

He can move planets as large as the earth with just his willpower alone!

8. Sephiroth casually creates a huge storm cloud in 3 seconds by using energy from the negative lifestream.

This is another casual island+ feat.

However, he doesn't use this energy from the negative lifestream to attack Cloud since he realises that Cloud's will is stronger than his own. Hence resorts to assault him physically.

9. The meteor that Sephiroth used to destroy the earth is even larger than the Moon!

Sephiroth was planning on tanking the full force of this meteor with his barriers...This is Multi continent+ to Moon+ level

10. The average materia is stated to be only 330 times weaker than the huge materia. Still in the country level range

Cloud survives a spell of this level from the combined efforts of Loz and Yazoo (despite being severely weakened after his fight with Sephiroth).

11. Coming to the speed feats,

As we know, Prime Zack is capable of dodging omni-directional Machine-gun fire from dozens of armed SOLDIERs attacking from all around.

This is pretty much an MHS+ feat (probably triple digit), given something like Master Roshi (from DBZ) catching a single machine gun's bullets is regarded as double digit maach

12. Cloud outran lightning bolts in AC that Kadaj fired at him

Now don't try to argue that its some kind of magic lightning because the script of AC clearly says it was a bolt summoned through materia.

Sephiroth: "The Knowledge and wisdom of the Ancients is held in the materia. Anyone with this knowledge can freely powers of the land and the planet. The knowledge interacts between ourselves and the planet calling up magic... Or so they say"

This is repeated, but in more detail in the Ultimania. Basically, Materia doesn’t create magic, it gives the user the knowledge to connect their inner spirit with the lifestream and control the natural elements.

Hence, Base Cloud in AC is mach 300+

13. Cloud and the party needed to get past the maze's whirlwinds.

The distance was like 10 km or more and they got past it in a few milliseconds. So another triple digit MHS+ feat.

Not to mention, Omnislash v6 greatly boosts up his speed making him capable of blitzing Sephiroth (who had transcended even past his Safer form).

....

So unless all these feats are debunked, Cloud and Zack can be safely called to be MHS+ country busters at the least, much like Sensui and Yusuke.

Post by SpeedForceSpider (4,803 posts) See mini bio Level 15

@supernova7005: I'm just gonna say something regarding the Zack machine gun feat. I remember using the same exact argument yet is was dismissed as bullshit and somehow made the facepalm thread. Mind sharing your opinion in why you think he is MHS?

Post by supernova7005 (1,966 posts) See mini bio Level 15

@SpeedForceSpider: Well, even ordinary bullet timing is generally considered as Supersonic+. Machine gun bullets are faster, and probably even more so considering they are Mako infused.

CC Zack casually danced around hundreds of such bullets being fired at him from all possible directions (360 degrees). Should be far above hypersonic+ IMO, especially if Roshi's bullet timing is considered impressive. However, that's just my opinion.

How strong do you believe Cloud and Zack to be (DC/durability wise)?

Post by SpeedForceSpider (4,803 posts) See mini bio Level 15

@supernova7005: Yeah the fastest machine guns with our current technology is about Mach 7-8 which is generally hypersonic. Although I believe their guns are more powerful, we have no way in knowing their exact speed.

And I remember that and the scene in FF Last Order shows it in detail. But I also tried the lightning speed feat for Cloud which is hands down the most solid feat, I even managed to prove it was natural lightning but the same a-hole that disproved the machine gun feat tried to downplay that one too. I even have the original script which stated lightning bolt(nowhere did it say magical) which pretty much confirms this. Which is a pretty solid speed feat IMO but that's all I can say about that.

Now for the durability thing. IDK about them being Continental level although the FF7 feat from looks good, I can't really see them being much above city level which is good IMHO.

Post by supernova7005 (1,966 posts) See mini bio Level 15

@SpeedForceSpider: Its actually the number of bullets that he dodges that makes it impressive.

For example, look at this calc done on the OBD http://www.narutoforums.com/showpost.php?p=42068847&postcount=5 - this guy cuts through normal musket bullets that are assumed to be 335 m/s and his speed is calced to be mach 10 - mach 13 despite there being only 3 guns.

As for Zack,

1. The number of people firing at him were a lot more (infact he was being fired at from every direction)

2. The interval between which the bullets were fired was much lesser (since they are machine guns and not ordinary muskets)

Assuming there are only a dozen people around him, and assuming machine gun bullet speeds to be mach 3, we can multiply the value obtained in this calc by x4 and x3.

So we easily have Zack at around mach 120+, which is MHS+ (this further agrees with Cloud's lightning timing)

....

And yeah, there's absolutely no doubt that its natural lightning. Infact Sephiroth himself states its elemental.

Sephiroth: "The Knowledge and wisdom of the Ancients is held in the materia. Anyone with this knowledge can freely powers of the land and the planet. The knowledge interacts between ourselves and the planet calling up magic... Or so they say"

This is repeated, but in more detail in the Ultimania. Basically, Materia doesn’t create magic, it gives the user the knowledge to connect their inner spirit with the lifestream and control the natural elements.

Btw even OBD has him at country-continent level http://outskirtsbattledome.wikispaces.com/Character+Profile+-+Sephiroth. City level seems like a downplay since there are 2x country+, 2x continent+, 1x island+, 1x moon+, 1x multi continent+ and 1x large city+ feats.

Post by SpeedForceSpider (4,803 posts) See mini bio Level 15
Yes I am aware it's the number of bullets which is impressive, and a group of Shinra grunts were firing at him and he only had that small space for dodging with makes the feat even more impressive. The machine gun bullet speeds should actually be about Mach 5 instead of Mach 3. And it's not that I'm downplaying their durability it's just Zack and Cloud don't really seem like they are continental. I agree with the large city+ for them. Hell, I might even consider the country level feat from FF7. Sephiroth is a different story, seeing as he is far stronger than both of them(disregarding PIS).
Post by CerusSerenade (2,432 posts) See mini bio Level 10

Yusuke and Sensui win with little effort because those feats were already disproven and you still are trying rather stupidly to use them so in a nutshell you concede.

Post by supernova7005 (1,966 posts) See mini bio Level 15

@CerusSerenade: Coming from the one who thinks Zoro can beat Cloud and that Gilgamesh is multi galaxy+ LMAO :|

If you disagree you may very well ignore it and don't post at all. Don't just troll, or make claims like this without providing evidence

Yusuke and Sensui definitely have a chance. Never said they don't

Post by CerusSerenade (2,432 posts) See mini bio Level 10

@supernova7005: Please explain what throwing multiple galaxies would be classified as.

Post by supernova7005 (1,966 posts) See mini bio Level 15

@CerusSerenade: Sephiroth's supernova is much more legit than Ea "throwing galaxies".

Post by CerusSerenade (2,432 posts) See mini bio Level 10

@supernova7005: And yet Extra/ccc is canon and Gilgamesh is confirmed massively faster than light in that game, sounds about right to me.

Sephiroth however uses a summon with cinematic effects which actually doesn't destroy the earth, meaning that it actually just does alot of damage, nothing more.

Post by supernova7005 (1,966 posts) See mini bio Level 15

@CerusSerenade: Those "galaxies" are not real galaxies but rather stated to be force fields. And apparently, its his ship that uses jump drives that makes him travel that fast, Gil himself isn't mftl.

Summons in FF7 are alternate dimension attacks as shown in CC http://youtu.be/C4OihcqpHnA?t=1m. The planets that got destroyed by the supernova are in a different dimension

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