CerusSerenade's Team vs Speedforcespider's team

Topic started by CerusSerenade on May 21, 2013. Last post by Theorder14 1 year, 7 months ago.
Post by Theorder14 (221 posts) See mini bio Level 9

@CerusSerenade: Can you find the scans or a visual novels to back up your claims? It says so in the rules.

Wasn't the reason Shirou managed to beat Gilgamesh because Shirou downloaded the skills of heroic spirits into his brain? The unlimited blade works is perfect counter against Gilgamesh and he would be the only spirit Shirou can defeat.( the battle between Archer and Shirou doesn't count cus Archer was like using 1/10 of his full strength and it was a battle about ideals). I highly doubt Souchirou and Shirou was moving at hypersonic speed. Maybe he got some speed amp or maybe he didn't but the main reason he could fight Saber was because of his fighting style. This is fact. I mean, Souchirou could also be considered a superhuman without any amps. He's like kotomine kirei who managed to fight against assassin. Now imagine kotomine fighting a nerfed Saber amped with Casters strength boost. Kirei without any amps could very possible be supersonic but not hypersonic.

Anyway, sorry if it seems like i'm bashing but i just wanted to get some facts right. I'll just let u debate now and remember to provide scan, video etc

GL

Post by CerusSerenade (2,828 posts) See mini bio Level 10

Shirou copied noble phantasms, not heroic spirits. No, unlimited blade works really isn't a counter to Gilgamesh, and being able to match gilgamesh puts you at hypersonic very easily considering that Gilgamesh is you know, the strongest servant. The fact of the matter is Souchiro must also be hypersonic or he would have been blitzed by Saber and Shirou in Fate Stay Night where Saber wasn't nerfed.

Killed a being that tried to possess her while it was inside her. Not even void mode.

Below is the video of Ryougi stating how she can rewrite reality. Check the 20 minute mark.

http://www.animeultima.tv/kara-no-kyoukai-epilogue-episode-1/

Post by Theorder14 (221 posts) See mini bio Level 9

@CerusSerenade: Gilgamesh is an owner not a wielder and it even says so in the game that the only servant Shirou can fight against is Gil. Even if Shirou fought any other servants in UBW he would most likely lose. Also, Shirou formed a contract with Rin, amping Shirou's prana greatly when he was getting ready to fight Gilgamesh

Try to refute this video then. Starts at 5:20 if u don't want the details.

Post by TheNeutralOne (1,016 posts) See mini bio Level 10

^--- comes prepared for everyone's debate

Post by CerusSerenade (2,828 posts) See mini bio Level 10

@Theorder14: I'd say it was a translation error since he beat Heracles with Nine-Lives Blade works, and nearly beat Rider before he even knew what his power was.

Post by Theorder14 (221 posts) See mini bio Level 9

@CerusSerenade: lol, it wasn't a translations error hahaha. The reason Shirou managed to defeat Heracles was because he had Archer's arm and he traced and copied Berserker's strength, and noble phantasm and like u said, The Nine-Lives Blade works (which is one of my favorite scenes btw)

Now skip to 1:35 and let's see what he's saying

Post by CerusSerenade (2,828 posts) See mini bio Level 10

@Theorder14: Considering that Shirou is Archer, he's not just in heroic spirit form, that doesn't mean much. But that still doesn't do much about the whole Rider vs Shirou part.

Post by Theorder14 (221 posts) See mini bio Level 9

@CerusSerenade: could you sent me a link so i could possibly point out the flaws. In which route r u using?

EDIT: it's HF i guess, /facepalm

Can't seem to remember but if u have a video u can post then by all means

Post by Theorder14 (221 posts) See mini bio Level 9

@CerusSerenade: Alright, we should discuss this somewhere else, in pm or something if u want. You're debating against spider right now. Also, i don't think Void Shiki is allowed in this tournament because she doesn't have enough feats and even if she can do the things she said she can. It violates the rules because that would make her a high level reality warper and she could bust the universe. If ur going to use Ryougi Shiki then use Shiki with katana instead, i believe she doesn't violate any rules.

Post by CerusSerenade (2,828 posts) See mini bio Level 10

@Theorder14: Ryougi's power is limited to what Akasha can do, which only affects Gaia.

Back the the original topic. Lelouch moving at hypersonic speed can order most of the enemy team to obey him at the beginning.

Post by Theorder14 (221 posts) See mini bio Level 9

hmm let's do it like this then.

Let's compare Lelouch's normal speed to Souchirou's normal speed without any amps. It's gotta say something.

As stated by the words of god a.k.a Nasu Kinoko. A battle between Souchirou and Kotomine Kirei without any amps, Souchirou would no doubt win because of his unique fighting style called the Snake. I repeat, The Snake is the main reason Souchirou could fight against servants and there's no speed needed there.Now let's take a look at this vid. Kotomine Kirei easily deflect bullets and can react to a assassin capable of moving four times faster than normal humans. And i repeat, Souchirou is a better martial artist than Kirei. and no, Kirei's speed isn't amped here in this vid. Just trying to get some facts right here so this would be fair.

EDIT: i'll just shut up now

Post by SpeedForceSpider (5,085 posts) See mini bio Level 15

@CerusSerenade: I do not believe Shiki can destroy reality. Obviously overhype and hyperbole unless you can prove me wrong of course. Even then, you're obviously breaking the rules of the tourney after you gave me a speech about rules. And it was already decided Lelouch would get killed before anyone else would. He isn't a fighter even if you boost his stats. Anyway, Batman can find a way to beat Berserker like he did the Justice League by utilizing different methods of attack, traps, and whatnot. With prep its easy to find a way to defeat Superman level characters for Batman. Hercules is nowhere near that 9 lives and all.

Kazuma is a powerhouse, I doubt anyone on your team would tank a country busting attack from him. He can also adapt and defend to almost any attack thanks to his alter like when he was attacked by a beam of sunlight.

Speed isn't debatable because Kazuma was able to fly from Earth to space in a few seconds and destroy an army of UFO's. Calc speeds of mach 557.

Lelouch isn't reacting to this guy, he and Caster get killed so fast it isn't even funny.


Say what you want about Goku using Kaioken, but at this point he shouldn't even need it against your team.

Post by Theorder14 (221 posts) See mini bio Level 9

@SpeedForceSpider said:

Batman can find a way to beat Berserker like he did the Justice League by utilizing different methods of attack, traps, and whatnot. With prep its easy to find a way to defeat Superman level characters for Batman. Hercules is nowhere near that 9 lives and all.

with 3 hours prep, i highly doubt Batman will steal even one life of Berserker. His noble phantasm is alot more complicated than you think. The God Hand is bestowed by the gods themselves to the heroic spirit Heracles and must be killed 12 times in order to completely eliminate him. well, u can just google it.

Just saying :D

Post by SpeedForceSpider (5,085 posts) See mini bio Level 15

@Theorder14 said:

@SpeedForceSpider said:

Batman can find a way to beat Berserker like he did the Justice League by utilizing different methods of attack, traps, and whatnot. With prep its easy to find a way to defeat Superman level characters for Batman. Hercules is nowhere near that 9 lives and all.

with 3 hours prep, i highly doubt Batman will steal even one life of Berserker. His noble phantasm is alot more complicated than you think. The God Hand is bestowed by the gods themselves to the heroic spirit Heracles and must be killed 12 times in order to completely eliminate him. well, u can just google it.

Just saying :D

So Batman can put down Superman level characters and not this guy. Good breakdown buddy. I have seen FSN and its nowhere near the hype you guys give it.

Just saying :D

Edit: It says he cannot be harmed by anything below an A rank Noble Phantasm. So you're telling me this is complicated? In what way exactly? My team is full of heavy hitters.

So you highly doubt Batman can do with 3 hours prep huh? Funny considering he has done more with way less time.

Using Superman suit
Using Superman suit
Built a machine to fight an amped Clayface
Built a machine to fight an amped Clayface
Pwning monsters with Insider Suit
Pwning monsters with Insider Suit
Created a Robo JLA
Created a Robo JLA

I'm sure you get the picture by now.

Post by CerusSerenade (2,828 posts) See mini bio Level 10

Ryougi destroyed a dimension that Araya created to hold Ryougi, it didn't work, and nearly ended up with him being erased as a side-effect.

In case you can't understand french, it basically says that Araya would have been wise to put her in a block of concrete than a different dimension, because she can kill dimensions and travel between dimensions.

Akasha is the root of all things, and is aware of all things that happen on Gaia, Ryougi Shiki in void mode has Akasha's personality and knowledge, Batman's plans will be revealed so that Lelouch knows and can plan for the team accordingly.

As for tanking, Heracles can tank any strong attack, and then become immune to it at the cost of one of his lives.

As for Kazuma moving at ftl speed, that's forbidden by the rules, I already told you this. His defense also means nothing against Gae Bolg and the MEoDP.

Post by SpeedForceSpider (5,085 posts) See mini bio Level 15

@CerusSerenade: Hold on a second here, in another debate we talked about Gaia in Nasuverse is different from a neutral one. How can you assume the same properties work here? Having knowledge still doesn't save Shiki and Lelouch from dying anyway. They are below superhuman in stats.

For the last time read before you type, Kazuma does not move at FTL speeds. Depending on the source he is massively hypersonic, possibly relativistic.

Heracles still dies from my team you cannot save him no matter how many lives. If you're trying to argue he can survive 12 different attacks from them then you have already lost the debate.

Argue my characters speed and defense all you want, but the lack of scans and videos on your part is making your argument lose value.

Post by CerusSerenade (2,828 posts) See mini bio Level 10

@SpeedForceSpider: Possibly relativistic should have thrown him out then.

Ryougi Shiki isn't superhuman? She blitzed a casual bullet timer AFTER the bullets were shot and tanked a point blank blast from the magus that tried to imprison her in a different dimension. Void mode lets her teleport and rewrite reality, she's WAY above superhuman.

Lelouch is enchanted by Caster to move at hypersonic speeds, and he's a tactical genius, do you really think that Batman isn't going to be challenged?

So you're saying Batman can take all his suits from earth, but Ryougi can't use Akasha's knowledge of Earth to do her own prep with Lelouch? Here I thought you were the one claiming double-standard.

Regardless, any character that tries to blitz in before the rest of your team will die to Gae Bolg since it reverses causality, meaning it doesn't matter if they try to block or reflect it, it's a physical impossibility. That combined with Ryougi's precognition will let her predict Kazuma's attempt to kill everyone and promptly react.

Post by SpeedForceSpider (5,085 posts) See mini bio Level 15

@CerusSerenade said:

@SpeedForceSpider: Possibly relativistic should have thrown him out then.

If I use the anime version instead will you stop whining about him? You have someone who can so called, destroy the reality with void and my character has to be thrown out? Pretty desperate to win I see Cerus.

Ryougi Shiki isn't superhuman? She blitzed a casual bullet timer AFTER the bullets were shot and tanked a point blank blast from the magus that tried to imprison her in a different dimension. Void mode lets her teleport and rewrite reality, she's WAY above superhuman.

Oh a bullet timer? My team is in trouble now.

Lelouch is enchanted by Caster to move at hypersonic speeds, and he's a tactical genius, do you really think that Batman isn't going to be challenged?

Not really, with the Flash robo I have more options in regards to speed and are you arguing Lelouch is on Batman's level of genius?

So you're saying Batman can take all his suits from earth, but Ryougi can't use Akasha's knowledge of Earth to do her own prep with Lelouch? Here I thought you were the one claiming double-standard.

The point was he built the suits, with you know, prep time. I can claim what I want as long as I can back it up.

Regardless, any character that tries to blitz in before the rest of your team will die to Gae Bolg since it reverses causality, meaning it doesn't matter if they try to block or reflect it, it's a physical impossibility. That combined with Ryougi's precognition will let her predict Kazuma's attempt to kill everyone and promptly react.

Really? Don't count on it Lancer is heavily outmatched in terms of speed. Even if he manages to hit one of them, Josuke can heal them instantly. Lancer gets blitzed at only mach 14, very badly. Precognition actually doesn't help against someone much faster if you do not have comparable reflexes. From what I know so far, your folks aren't that fast.

Post by CerusSerenade (2,828 posts) See mini bio Level 10

@SpeedForceSpider: Harm inflicted by Gae Bolg cannot be healed.

The robots aren't usual equipment, why would he have access to them here. He can't make them out of dirt in 3 hours.

I'm going to laugh if you're going to say that Batman can build his suits out of dirt in 3 hours. The batman + prep wank needs to stop.

How about this then, Ryougi rewrites the concept of speed so that she matches Kazuma. If she can violate the concept of distance, she can certainly do that using the same method.

Post by SMXLR8 (7,763 posts) See mini bio Level 16

@CerusSerenade: But he's the GOD DAME BATMAN =(

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