Battles

I've been thinking recently. And this site seems to have a lot of insightful people that can help me get to a conclusion. Its no secret that Toriko has a huge amount of physical power. Is it enough to bring down the mighty SSJ4 Goku?. The Saiyan outclasses him in every area such as destruction capacity, speed, the only advantage(and that might be pushing it) toriko has is his physical strength and fighting skill now that he has mastered(?) food honor. So i want to know. If SSJ4 Goku, or SSJ3(i know there are some altercations as to which form is stronger) would just stand there perfectly still, and Toriko busted out his strongest nail punch, could he once shot the Saiyan?. In my opinion, it would severely injure Goku to the point of killing him if left untreated, that is ofcourse if it does not kill him alltogether.

What do you feel?

@Tenchi said:

I've been thinking recently. And this site seems to have a lot of insightful people that can help me get to a conclusion. Its no secret that Toriko has a huge amount of physical power. Is it enough to bring down the mighty SSJ4 Goku?. The Saiyan outclasses him in every area such as destruction capacity, speed, the only advantage(and that might be pushing it) toriko has is his physical strength and fighting skill now that he has mastered(?) food honor. So i want to know. If SSJ4 Goku, or SSJ3(i know there are some altercations as to which form is stronger) would just stand there perfectly still, and Toriko busted out his strongest nail punch, could he once shot the Saiyan?. In my opinion, it would severely injure Goku to the point of killing him if left untreated, that is ofcourse if it does not kill him alltogether.

What do you feel?

No. As far as i know Toriko's best destruction feat was when he used 36 Ren Kugi punch tu bust that large mountain (with several peaks), and some calcs put it around in range of gigaton 790.4 megatons to be more precise, which is almost 8 time more powerful than Tsar Bomba the most powerful nuclear weapon man made. Anyway even at the end of Dragon Ball Goku survived without a scratch attack from Piccolo which leveled entire island (in range of gigatons) along with several cities on that island. At at thta time Goku was even weaker than during encounter with Raditz. So there isn't even chance for Toriko to one - shoot Goku from the begginig of DBZ let alone SSJ4 Goku.

it would certainly hurt him, but it wouldnt do serious damage at all.... goku is a planet buster and has similar durability, however if goku is not prepared it may injure him badly (since a rock managed to hurt him even in ssj form)

@othus12 said:

it would certainly hurt him, but it wouldnt do serious damage at all.... goku is a planet buster and has similar durability, however if goku is not prepared it may injure him badly (since a rock managed to hurt him even in ssj form)

the rock thing was filler as far as i know. But on topic, i do not think that the kugi punch would hurt goku at all. Maybe if he lowered his defenses to the bare minimum like vegeta did with krillin on namek in order to purposely get injured toriko may be able to scratch him, but thats about it

@TheVectorPrime said:

@Tenchi said:

I've been thinking recently. And this site seems to have a lot of insightful people that can help me get to a conclusion. Its no secret that Toriko has a huge amount of physical power. Is it enough to bring down the mighty SSJ4 Goku?. The Saiyan outclasses him in every area such as destruction capacity, speed, the only advantage(and that might be pushing it) toriko has is his physical strength and fighting skill now that he has mastered(?) food honor. So i want to know. If SSJ4 Goku, or SSJ3(i know there are some altercations as to which form is stronger) would just stand there perfectly still, and Toriko busted out his strongest nail punch, could he once shot the Saiyan?. In my opinion, it would severely injure Goku to the point of killing him if left untreated, that is ofcourse if it does not kill him alltogether.

What do you feel?

No. As far as i know Toriko's best destruction feat was when he used 36 Ren Kugi punch tu bust that large mountain (with several peaks), and some calcs put it around in range of gigaton 790.4 megatons to be more precise, which is almost 8 time more powerful than Tsar Bomba the most powerful nuclear weapon man made. Anyway even at the end of Dragon Ball Goku survived without a scratch attack from Piccolo which leveled entire island (in range of gigatons) along with several cities on that island. At at thta time Goku was even weaker than during encounter with Raditz. So there isn't even chance for Toriko to one - shoot Goku from the begginig of DBZ let alone SSJ4 Goku.

I wasn't aware of the piccolo feat. Did goku outright shrug that attack off?, even if he didn't i dont suppose it makes much difference now. That just about sums it up for me. I'm not sure if Toriko's nail punch + sani's hair net reflection or whatever its called would make much of a difference here but what are your opinions?

@Tenchi said:

@TheVectorPrime said:

@Tenchi said:

I've been thinking recently. And this site seems to have a lot of insightful people that can help me get to a conclusion. Its no secret that Toriko has a huge amount of physical power. Is it enough to bring down the mighty SSJ4 Goku?. The Saiyan outclasses him in every area such as destruction capacity, speed, the only advantage(and that might be pushing it) toriko has is his physical strength and fighting skill now that he has mastered(?) food honor. So i want to know. If SSJ4 Goku, or SSJ3(i know there are some altercations as to which form is stronger) would just stand there perfectly still, and Toriko busted out his strongest nail punch, could he once shot the Saiyan?. In my opinion, it would severely injure Goku to the point of killing him if left untreated, that is ofcourse if it does not kill him alltogether.

What do you feel?

No. As far as i know Toriko's best destruction feat was when he used 36 Ren Kugi punch tu bust that large mountain (with several peaks), and some calcs put it around in range of gigaton 790.4 megatons to be more precise, which is almost 8 time more powerful than Tsar Bomba the most powerful nuclear weapon man made. Anyway even at the end of Dragon Ball Goku survived without a scratch attack from Piccolo which leveled entire island (in range of gigatons) along with several cities on that island. At at thta time Goku was even weaker than during encounter with Raditz. So there isn't even chance for Toriko to one - shoot Goku from the begginig of DBZ let alone SSJ4 Goku.

I wasn't aware of the piccolo feat. Did goku outright shrug that attack off?, even if he didn't i dont suppose it makes much difference now. That just about sums it up for me. I'm not sure if Toriko's nail punch + sani's hair net reflection or whatever its called would make much of a difference here but what are your opinions?

Same. In order for someone to hurt Goku you would need sometihing in range of planet buster (asuming that Goku is at full power SSJ4 and not lowering his power level). But to be honest Toriko is physicly stronger even than SSJ4 Goku. Best (and only strength feat of SSJ4 Goku) is when he lifted a part of a city and he did it with effort. Toriko has strength feats which outclass this one. And even if we use powerscailing from FPSSJ Goku pushing two part of mountain (but small one) in order to calc SSJ4 Goku's strength. Still Toriko should be stronger (but now the gap will be smaller). Anyway in combat Toriko doesn't stand a chance. Goku outclassed him totaly in speed. And in destructive capacity they can't even be compared.

@TheVectorPrime: Thats what i mean. See i noticed that Toriko is actually physically more powerful then goku at his strongest, atleast, with his strongest nail punch attack. What i want to know is how badly could it damage him?. I always through that goku can planet bust, but his physical strength and durability is nowhere near that. Which is what prompted me to ask this question. Don't get me wrong, in any other situation Toriko would die in an instant.

@Tenchi said:

@TheVectorPrime: Thats what i mean. See i noticed that Toriko is actually physically more powerful then goku at his strongest, atleast, with his strongest nail punch attack. What i want to know is how badly could it damage him?. I always through that goku can planet bust, but his physical strength and durability is nowhere near that. Which is what prompted me to ask this question. Don't get me wrong, in any other situation Toriko would die in an instant.

Yes I underdstand. About Goku's durability. Well nothing in DBZ/DBGT indicated that he can take planet buster without a scratch(they always paniced for their lives when Earth was about to be destroyed). At the end of Dragon Ball he tanked Piccolo's attack which leveld entire surface of the Papaya island on which 23rd Martial Arts Tournament was held. Piccolo's attack is called Hyper Explosive Demon Wave (his most powerfull attack at that time), will call it HEDW since i'm going to do a little calcs. Here is the link on which attack can be seen http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D-8H3ujoZVA&feature=relmfu. The Papaya island is not very big it's about the size of city(average). So to be fair lets asume that yeild of Piccolo's attack was as the same as Tsar Bomba which had 50 megatons. If you check page orders of magnitude(energy) on wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orders_of_magnitude_(energy you can see that Tsar Bomba had energy of 2.1 x 10^17 J. Minimal energy for Earth busting is 2.24 x 10^32 J (gravitational binding energy which must be overcome din order for Earth to be destroyed in fragments). So we would need 1.066666666(lets round it on this number of 6 digits) x 10^15 Tsar Bombs in order to destroy the Earth or 1.066666666 x 10^15 HEDW. To be 100% precise I must mention that Goku didn't tanked all 2.1 x 10^17 J of HEDW. He only tanked amount proportional to his body size (since energy equaly spreads all over the explosion sphere) and that amount is less by several orders of magnitude than full energy. Same would be for planet - buster. Anyway it won't change the fact that he would tank 1.066666666 x 10^15 greater amount of energy with planet buster than with HEDW. In order for Goku to tank Earth-buster he would need to be 1.066666666 x 10^15 times more powerful than during his fight with Piccolo Junior. And there are practicly no chances at all for him to got stronger this much. Greatest leap in power was from Saiyan to Frieza saga. He got from 416 to 150 000 000 at SS1. Still no where near to 10^15. Lets say that at the end of DBZ he got 10 000 times stronger up to SSJ1. With SSJ2 he would be 20 000 times stronger than SSJ1 on Namek. With SSJ3 80 000 times stronger tha SSJ1 on Namek. Kid Goku at the begginig og GT is = SSJ3 Goku at the end of DBZ (based on the fact that General Rildo was stated as = Kid Buu). SSJ3 Goku GT is 400 times stronger than SSJ3 Goku at the end of DBZ and 32 000 000 times stronger than SSJ1 Goku during fight with Frieza. Let's say that SSJ4 is 10 times SSJ3. That means SSJ4 Goku is 320 000 000 times stronger than SSJ1 Goku from Namek saga and 320 000 000 x (150 000 000/416) = 115 520 000 000 000 times stronger than Goku from the begining of the DBZ. Official power level for Goku during 23rd Tournament is the same as in the beggining of the DBZ 334 (from Goku HIshoden), although that's Goku with weighted clothes. Without weighted clothes he was measured 416 by Raditz. So let's say that without weighted clothes Goku during the fight in 23rd Tournament had a power level of 400. Again power rise of 120 000 000 000 000 (since we are using 400) is < than 10^15.

And note that this calcs were goign in Goku's favor since i was using extremly high values for power rise.

Anyway someone would say that power increases exponentially with power level rising. Well that's wrong since Vegeta stated during the fight with Cui "power rises proportionally to power level rising" that means power rise is linear and not exponential.

Many DBZ fans base durability on the fact that Frieza survived Namek destruction. Well Frieza has totaly different physiology than Goku, cna breath in space, can be cut in two and not bleed and survive without any trouble. Not to mention that Frieza was totaly decimated after explosion (in millions of pieces) and almost death. Only his unique physiology helped him survive. And being torned apart isn't sigh of durability. If he was intact after explosion (like Superman, Thor or Surfer) that would be example of his durability.

Even Kid Buu who had = durability to SSJ3 Goku (evident from the fight and fact that they were more or less equal) was totaly desitegrated after Earth destruction and only his regeneration helepd him survive.

So there is zero chance for anyone except Gogeta SSJ4 to have planet-busting durability. In my opinion Goku at any of his SSJ stages should not have any problem tanking attack powerful enough to destroy entire surface of the planet Earth.

In case of Toriko, there is no chance that even all 4 Heavenly Kings could make a dent on Goku's body combined. Since he tanked attack of similar power to 36 Ren Kugi Punch when he was much, much, much weaker.

I have no idea about what attacks Toriko uses, but SSJ4 Goku can take a planet busting energy attack. He's no where near as durable when it comes to a physical attack though.

@TheVectorPrime: How is SSJ3 Goku 400x stronger than SSJ3 Goku at the end of DBZ? I understand how you came to the conclusion that Goku SS4 might be 10x stronger than SS3, due to the fact that he is just a controlled Oozaru transformation but didn't understand how you came to the previous conclusion.

@ohgodwhy said:

@TheVectorPrime: How is SSJ3 Goku 400x stronger than SSJ3 Goku at the end of DBZ? I understand how you came to the conclusion that Goku SS4 might be 10x stronger than SS3, due to the fact that he is just a controlled Oozaru transformation but didn't understand how you came to the previous conclusion.

SSJ3 should be 400 times the base level. SSJ1= 50 x base; SSJ2 = 2 x SSJ1 = 100 x base; SSJ3 = 4 x SSJ2 = 8 x SSJ1 = 400 x base. Kid Goku in GT base was on par with Rildo who was stated to be on par with Kid Buu(actually slightly stronger). And Kid Buu is equal SSJ3 Goku (SSJ3 might be slightly stronger). Therefore Kid Goku base is equal to SSJ3 Goku. And SSJ3 Goku is 400 times his base form or 400 times SSJ3 Goku in the end of DBZ.

Wouldn't SSJ3 be double the strength of SS2 so 200x base? I thought it said each transformation was twice as powerful as the one before it so if SS2 was 100x base then wouldn't SS2 be 200x base.

Oh ok thanks for clearing that up for me

@TheVectorPrime said:

@ohgodwhy said:

@TheVectorPrime: How is SSJ3 Goku 400x stronger than SSJ3 Goku at the end of DBZ? I understand how you came to the conclusion that Goku SS4 might be 10x stronger than SS3, due to the fact that he is just a controlled Oozaru transformation but didn't understand how you came to the previous conclusion.

SSJ3 should be 400 times the base level. SSJ1= 50 x base; SSJ2 = 2 x SSJ1 = 100 x base; SSJ3 = 4 x SSJ2 = 8 x SSJ1 = 400 x base. Kid Goku in GT base was on par with Rildo who was stated to be on par with Kid Buu(actually slightly stronger). And Kid Buu is equal SSJ3 Goku (SSJ3 might be slightly stronger). Therefore Kid Goku base is equal to SSJ3 Goku. And SSJ3 Goku is 400 times his base form or 400 times SSJ3 Goku in the end of DBZ.

Actually goku gets a 100 x boost in dbgt when he turns ssj 1.

@taichokage said:

Actually in the official handbook it was stated that ssj2 is 100x base and that ssj3 is 400x base.

Do you have the scans or link for that?

As for this thread if this guy can only level mountains then he isn't even going to hurt master roshi.

@MarioRedfield said:

I don't think anyone can really ONE SHOT Goku...

a lot of characters can, just not toriko