Battles

@ReiKai: i'm gonna copy past something about i said about Broly what i said in a diffrent treat was:

Broly is overhyped as hell, people are so impressed that Broly fought againts the Z Fighters all at once but they forget that Super Perfect Cell could easly do the same. When Super Perfect Cell emerged from the dust and one-shotted Trunks, Vegeta went mad and charged Cell whith everything he got, blasting him over and over, but Cell simply smiled and one shotted Vegeta to the ground like he was nothing. Broly beating all the Z Fights at once isn't something spectacular. Some people say that Broly was holding back and was toying with the Z Fighters, but if you watch the movie again you see that Broly becomes visible anoyed at Goku for surviving his attacks replying with: *Why won't you give up!* *Your persistence is anoying!* Broly wanted to end the fight but he could't one shot Goku. If you remember the Cell Jr's, each Cell Jr was as strong as Vegeta/Trunks, they where all fighting equally, yet when Gohan transformed into SSJ2 he one shotted them. Now if people say that Broly is just as strong a SSJ3 or SSJ4 or hell even Gogeta... then Broly would have killed the Z Fighters with a mere hand gesture, releasing his energy would be enough, remember when Goku did it with the Meta-Matcha's in the movie with Lord Slug it would be just like that, Goku or Gohan in the second movie couldn't even harm Broly if he was that powerfull, hell those triple kamehamehame's would be futile. Remember when Janameba attack Gogeta and Gogeta wouldn't even flinsh yeah if Broly was that powerfull he would't have any trouble with Gohan hurting him with a knee, or the Triple Kamehamehma. Broly is an impressive villian but he is nowhere near as powerfull as SSJ3 or even Gogeta as some people claim.

Now your where right about them attack first in there base form, but later on when they transformed, Super 17 attacked with his *Flash Bomb* and everybody was hit so hard they where reverted back into their base Form exept for Vegeta. Super 17 with one attack was enough to nearly end them and he did it with no effort whatso ever . Your underestimating Goten's and Trunks powerleveles, At the end of DBZ Goku said that Goten and Trunks should keep training because when Uub grows up he would look to them in leadership. Is Goten stronger that he was when is was a Kid most defenitly, you saw him train with Goku even after the Buu saga thats 7 years of training he had with Goku, Goku made him train remember, and your also forgetting that Trunks was with Goku the whole time fighting opponents like Baby Vegeta and whatnot, are they a whole lot stronger no but stronger still. So thats 4 Super Sayins + Majuub (who is stronger then al of them Baby even states this when he was fighting Majuub) and they where all brushed aside with one attack.

"Should keep training" doesn't mean they did. They went to School and got Girlfriends. They didn't train. Neither did Vegeta nor Gohan, who went on to become a Business man. They ALL Got weaker. As for Cell, it was a sneak attack on Trunks that Nobody expected. Vegeta failing comes as no surprise given he couldn't do much against Cell prior to the Cell Games. Not only this, but Cell NEEDED to cripple Gohan when he reverted back to SSJ1, so that Gohan wouldn't be a threat to him. 
 
Brolly, on the other hand, beat the ever living shit out of all of them, Effortlessly, while just screwing around. And even when they were all beaten to near death and healed by Senzu Beans, which would've raised all of their PL's up due to the Saiyan Heritage, they were still completely outclassed by Brolly who continued to slap them silly without any effort, and ALL of their attacks were utterly ineffective against him. It took a PLOT DEVICE to actually hurt him at the very end. And then in 2nd Coming, we have two SS2's and a SSJ1 who were getting completely overpowered by Brolly in their final attack and took yet another Plot Device to take him out.
 
And what you're still forgetting is that GT is Non-Canon as a series. It breaks off from everything. Everything about it was pure fail. Heck, Goku and them were caught up in the Para-Para Bro's Dance attack which controlled them via SOUND!!

@ReiKai: Actually they did keep training for a while Goten himself stated that because Goku made him do it, Goten (DBZ Teen) wanted to go out but Goku made him train with him instead of dating, Goten wasn't slacking all the time. Vegeta did in fact train like Vegeta always does this is seen later on when the Dragons show up and you see Vegeta training and even Bulma comments it on it. Where did you got the expression that Cell needed to cripple someone? when he got back he was earger to fight Gohan SSJ2 head on, and Cell knows full well what Gohan is cabable off. The problem i have with Broly is that people find what he does is impessive but it actually isn't, why?, back with the example i gave with Cell one-shotting Vegeta, if Cell wanted he could also take on the entire Z Fighters and probably end the fight faster than Broly did. He already has show he could take Vegeta down with one pathetic blow and he did it after Cell got mauled down for 10 minutes by constant attacks from Vegeta, but when watching the movie, yes Broly was beating them but it took way longer than Cell did. Like i said above Broly later on became visible annoyed that Goku kept coming back for more and wanted to put him down but he could't. In the second movie you see Gohan go SSJ2 in the BEGGINING of the battle, not the second time when he's was beaten, this is easy to spot as his hair looks diffrent and his electrical aura dissapears with he totally had at the beginning and also Gohan was far to weak to go SSJ2 from that point. In the end Broly got beat by 2 weakend and crippeld SSJ 1 and Goku's SSJ transformation is unknown. And this time there where no plot devices Broly could't blast away the energy beam when they gave everything they had, Broly simple wasn't strong enough. And i agree with you on GT...its makes everything complicated :)

This is silly. The universe that Broly comes from is SO much more powerful than the one super 17 comes from. The universe was warped and a galaxy was destroyed compared to Super saiyan Great Ape Baby launching a full powered galick gun at earth and the planet was still fine. Even to the normal canon that is pretty weak. GT was a disaster in that power levels and speed took massive nosedives. Broly would just rip Super 17 in half.

@GrayWolf2: No GT is more powerfull than DBZ. The universe dind't warp you probably think about Janemba warping Other World not the Universe. Goku said he has the power to destroy the universe not warp it and lots of people could destroy the universe. Baby Vegeta firering his Galick Gun at a planet and not destroying it is not something new, DBZ has plenty off those 2. When Fat Buu fought Majin Vegeta Buu chared up and unleased a large portion of his power and in the end left only a small crater but when you go back in time, Vegeta (sayin Saga) did far more damage to the earth by releasing his power the same why Fat Buu did considering Fat Buu is infinit;y more powerfull than Vegeta Sayi Saga. DBZ has lots of those. Broly could never ever rip Super 17 in half DBGT villians are far more powerfull than anything DBZ trows at them.

@niBBit: It IS something new when the character fires at the planet with the intent of blowing it up and doesn't. The feat you talked about wasn't a direct assault on the planet. In the canon there are plenty of times when the characters charged up with enough power to destroy the world but heres the thing: They didn't fire at the planet. They shot up. Or when they did, it got deflected back. I don't know why you think GT is more powerful than DBZ canon and I can't fathom why you think they are stronger than the alternate universe that broly comes from. Broly nuked an entire galaxy. Omega Shenron at the worst could maybe destroy the planet. His evil could infect and maybe destroy the universe but whatever. Oh, and lots of people could NOT just destroy the universe. Once again this is silly. You've staged a battle where a character from the weakest of the dbz universes is facing someone from the strongest.

@GrayWolf2: Broly never destroyed a Galaxy, King Kai said he destoyed MOST of the South Galaxy and after that he will be heading to the North Galaxy. Broly never One-Shotted or completly destoyed the Galaxy, better yet when Vegeta tagged along with Broly to search for the (at the time unknown Legendary Super Saiyin) he was looking in the SOUTH GALAXY you know the one Broly supposed to have destroyed. You say that DBZ is stronger than GT, so that means that in terms of power, SSJ3>>SSJ4? no its always implied that when a character transforms he gets stronger not weaker and there is no reason to think that if a SSJ could blow up an planet an SSJ4 could't do it to. Omega Shenron was wrecking 2 SSJ4's/Majuub/Gohan/Goten/Trunks, and is quoted multple times by offical books like the DB Perfect Files that he is the second strongest character in the DB universe only Gogeta SSJ4 ranks above him. Omega could do much more than destroy a planet.

EDIT: I rewatched the episode with Baby Oozau and Baby was attacking Goku's familly and friends to anger Goku. Later on Goku replied that *why are you attack them, i'm right here* and then Baby says: *To show you how much i hate you (laughs)* Baby later on wanted to show Goku what he is willing to do in order to win and then he destoyed Satan City (Not Earth) with his Galick Gun, he was not planning to destroy earth (just yet) only where Goku's friend back on earth where located (Satan City). Then Baby again replied that he showed Goku that he's willing to destoy his followers (all the people of Earth) if it means by beating him, and moments later in there battle, Baby this time wanted to destroy the earth and because Goku knew he was not bluffing because of earlier, Goku tanked the Galick Gun.

Edit 2: This is what i've been saying about the whole Galaxy Busting Myth, couple of good points: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rpHdgn3UaBc

There are plenty more video's of this user on his page consurning Broly, dind't watch all of them but so far they pretty good.

@niBBit: One: I didn't like my last post because it almost comes off as being mean and if so I apologize. When you're strapped for time you just type and don't edit well. Case and point it almost looks like I accuse you of making this thread. Anyway, second point. I already knew that there was still a small part of the South Galaxy left. Paragus mentioned it and it makes sense. If Broly destroyed the whole thing there would be no Comet. But still 90-99% of a galaxy trumps anything in GT. You mentioned DB Perfect files. I'm going to look into that because I don't trust stuff like that due to the high rate of them being a hoax. I already have suspicions if they list two GT characters as the strongest. It is non-canon after all. Finally: By my estimations Broly has the edge overwhelmingly in power until you can prove anyone in GT can even destroy more than one planet. Or even a solar system. And I don't want the Super 17 can absorb power answer. So could androids 19, 20 and Yakon. Much good it did them against someone much more powerful than they are. They could also do it better since they don't have to strike a pose. Also, due to GT being its own thing what's Super Saiyan power levels in one universe may not be in another. I may get into details later but this post is dragging.

@GrayWolf2: No worries man :) i dind't get offended. If you saw that video i posted it shows you that the South Galaxy was not destroyed and hasn't been destroyed not has it any mention thats 90% is destroyed and, Broly attacking/destroying the Galaxy was not done so in a day but overtime. Your right about this thread dragging, and i'm a bit tired of it :) maybe its best not to include anymore GT vs Z fights. makes things alot easier.

@niBBit: Glad it wasn't a big deal. I did watch the video and noticed he left out a few parts that I always used to explain it. I'll go rewatch in the japanese dub again to be sure. You may be right about GT vs Z fights. About done with this thread too.

@niBBit said:

@eddz99: Uhm.. no Super 17 is not around SSJ3. When Super 17 first came to be (without absorbing anything) he took on Mystic Gohan/Vegeta SSJ2/Goten/Trunks/Majuub and there where getting tossed aside. Super 17 was so unimpressed by them that when Goten Trunks and Vegeta both landed direct hits..he cleaned his boots (go watch on youtube to see what i mean). Later on he became more powerfull when he absorbed attakcks from Goku. Super 17 at his most basic is well over SSJ3 otherwise he's could't do what he did.

Mystic gohan did not appear in GT and both goten and trunks are still weaker than piccolo. Broly is stronger than Gt gohan, Gt trunks GT goten. So wthose 3 cannot be accounted for in trying to compare theirs to Broly's powerleel as he'd stomp them easily. We do not know how much vegeta's power had increased and as for Majuub well in the Buu saga the original buu's power level(not Kid buu) was perhaps way over goku's imperfect ss3 form and may be on par with Mystic gohan

Super 17 has got this, but not easily; we all know the mental stability of Broly. He'd give Super 17 so many openings and opportunities to exploit. Broly is a Saiyan like any other and LOVES the joy of battle, let's not forget that. Even Gohan succumbed to his genetic complexes when he first reached SSJ2, stating how he'd rather let Cell suffer, than to finish the job of killing him. Going by what's been written, Super 17 has handled the likes of SSJ4 -- a HUGE advantage and like Broly he has easily trounced the Z fighters in their full strength/power, even withstanding a Final Shine attack from a SSJ2 Vegeta no problem. Broly on the other hand we can assume is stronger than SSJ2 for the sheer way he dominated a SSJ2 Gohan in Second Coming (albeit Gohan wasn't nearly as strong as he was back when he fought Cell, as stated by Vegeta). But nonetheless Broly was holding is own easily and he was able to momentarily subdue 3 oncoming Kamehameha waves from a SSJ2 Gohan, SSJ1 Goten and PRESUMABLY SSJ2 Goku, until yeah, a "plot device." Anyways, this wouldn't be an easy fight, Broly is as tough as they come; he's relentless. The primary reason I choose 17 is because of Broly's mental instability, it's his one and MAJOR liability.