Berserk vs Berserker

Topic started by ToxicFume on Nov. 13, 2010. Last post by FoolyCooly 3 years, 9 months ago.
Post by ToxicFume (210 posts) See mini bio Level 5
Which one of these Berserkers will come out alive in a battle of blood lust. 
Guts
 

 
 
 
 
 
 
Fate/Zero Berserker
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
Berserk Armor on, Arondight allowed, No prana restriction. GO!
Post by ReiKai (3,509 posts) See mini bio Level 10
Gutts can kill incorporeal spirits/entities/demons. He's also hypersonic. He split Gruhnbelds corundum armor (basically it's diamond).
Post by ToxicFume (210 posts) See mini bio Level 5
Speed shouldn't be to much trouble for The black knight considering he was able to fight saber w/o Arondight. 
 

Warriors clad in armor, in single combat battling with all the strength in their bodies amid the light reflecting off sword and spear and the shadow of swinging blades.
But the amount of escaping prana and the intense heat were different.
If it was merely a clash between cold steel, what would be the mighty torrent of air that accompanied it and threatened to destroy all within sight?
The foot that landed crushed the ground.
The wind that followed the swinging of weapons crudely severed the lamp post in half.
Irisviel could no longer see the movements carried out at such high speeds. She was only feeling the after-shock of the conflict between the two.
The peeling sheet iron on the outer walls of the warehouses was ripped away by the wind from Irisviel’s side as if it was a piece of coiled tin foil. She could not comprehend how the iron can be torn away. Perhaps it was Saber’s sword or Lancer’s spear that brushed against its adjacent hollow space. Apart from that, she could not come up with any other explanation.
The wind was moaning.
Faced with a dimension that is completely at odds with the physical laws of this world, the air emitted paranoid wails.
A chaotic storm raged on the empty shopping street, destroying, trampling all things within.
Just hand-to-hand combat between the two would be enough to ruin an entire street.

 
This should pretty much explain the speed and force of which The black knight is cable of. Note that it isn't berzerker fighting, but lancer and saber.
http://www.baka-tsuki.org/project/index.php?title=Fate/Zero:Act_4_Part_3
Now if you read the page berserker is fighting saber with an iron pole so he isn't using Arondight which gives him +1rank in all parameters. Str,Agil,Luck,Magic. Yet he is able to oppose saber with the quote above.
If more speeds feats are needed just say so, but thats all ill write down for now, but in all glory strength and speed can go I'm more interested in Guts skills.
Post by paladin (1,192 posts) See mini bio Level 13
@ReiKai said:
" Gutts can kill incorporeal spirits/entities/demons. He's also hypersonic. He split Gruhnbelds corundum armor (basically it's diamond). "
Yes, and was blitzed by Rosine whoose best combat feed to cause sonic booms on flight. Also Servants can easily kill monsters by hundreds while Guts seemingly has problems without relying on the Berserker armor.
Also, Berserker kept up and forced into the corner Saber who can pass 4 kilometers in a single second(Mach 13+). He can also survive the full bombardment of Gate of Babylon by grabing the first eapon hurled at him and using it to slash every other incoming projectile away. Remember, those are Noble Phantasms that can easily blow up buildings. The impact of a 5-7 Noble Phantasms were depicted as a bombing run that destroyed every building in the area.
Post by ReiKai (3,509 posts) See mini bio Level 10
Totally incorrect. You leave out the fact Gutts was already seriously injured and had just mowed down a small army of Psuedo-Apostles before going against Rosine having his flesh torn into by her insectoid-minions, to which Gutts had to set himself on fire to kill them all. Not to mention Gutts also got poisoned and had lost a lot of blood beforehand. So really you're trying to compare a more than half-dead Gutts against Rosine's super-sonic flight....yeah you're not making any sense there. Gutts' numerous other feats and showings clearly depict him as super-sonic and more than once has a number of the cast members went on about Gutts being super-human. And that was before the Berserker Armor.
 
And you should remember; most of the monsters Gutts fights against can smash through buildings physically and have no need for absurd attacks, nevermind that Ganishka does hit'im with lightning a few times and Gruhnbeld has dragonbreath. You should really pay attention. The things Gutts has to fight against, the Godhand, makes the F/S cast look like chumps.
Post by ToxicFume (210 posts) See mini bio Level 5
@ReiKai: It would be much more interesting if you could provide more on god hand other than that they'll make the F/SN cast look like chumps. Also Guts is a Berserk they are suppose to ignore pain and fatigue, its what they do, so technically their always fighting their fullest when blood lusted, and are usually always blood lusted when fighting. So if Guts wasn't blood lusted with his fight with Rosine, i would agree he was wounded and wasn't a fair fight. But you still have yet to answer my question. What kind of battle capabilities have Guts shown other than overpowering his opponents.
Post by ReiKai (3,509 posts) See mini bio Level 10
The Godhand are a group of extradimensional entities that control everything, mainly Causality. Femto, aka Griffith, can't be touched, even in mortal form. He controls all events around him. Even dozens of archers from about 20ft away all missed him and the white horse he rode in on. His very existence in the world is warping and melding it with the various etheral and spiritual planes. Basically, these guys wrap space/time, reality, causality an such around their little fingers. They're the main antagonists that Gutts has to face when the time comes after mowing his way through countless numbers of Apostles.
 
Also, Gutts is Not a Berserker. He only became such when he got the Berserker Armor and that wasn't until long after his bout with Rosine. So he still very much feels pain and suffers serious injury. As for Gutts' abilities, he has substantial skills. 90% of the guys Gutts fights against after the end of the Golden Age are all physically stronger than he is, and for over 2yrs he's managed to kill them through sheer grit, fury and super-human skill. One of his earliest feats was batting away a flail being swung at him continuously with such speed it was far beyond human perception, and he did so quite easily. Gutts didn't get the Berserker Armor until about Vol24-25. Even Prior to the Eclipse he had gone against two apostles. The first was Nosferatu Zodd, who commended Gutts' skill, but that fight was lost the moment Zodd went Apostle Form. The 2nd guy was later and I can't recall his name exactly, but it was after Griffith was locked in a cell and tortured for a year. During that fight Gutts got thrown through several trees, breaking the trees, and still came back for more.
 
This is not including the fight he had with the commander of the Purple Rhino Knights of Chuder, where their sword battle was so fast and so fierce no one else could get near the pair for fear that the wind pressure generated by the force of their weapons would kill them. Gutts has been quite known for regularly killing 4+ people in a single swing of his sword, armor and all. Casca once commented about Gutt's sword style, since he has no real formal training or the like, saying his was the "Sword of Carnage" due to the fact that whenever he swung his sword, bodies were rent asunder and blood and gore would litter the earth.
Post by ToxicFume (210 posts) See mini bio Level 5
Wow God hand doesn't sound that impressive compared to Gilgamesh Enuma Elish that has claims that it can bust a planet and distort space. It also has claims that Enuma Elish has killed 70 gods, but i don't know how accurate that claim is. You should also know all the heroic are super human in their own sense. Take in archer from Fate/SN he piratically is a reality bender. He can crate duplications of noble phantoms in thin air with a downgrade, and he has his reality marble which allows him to bend the rules of nature to follow his rules. Also killing gods isn't anything new to Gilgamesh, take Enkidu for example. More the divinity the thing has the stronger the chains get. 
 
Now back to Berserker, Berserker has shown that he is capable of grasping a weapon and admittedly use it as if it was an extension of his arm.
 

At Archer's command, the flock of Noble Phantasms floating in the air were left loose, rushing toward Berserker.

A thunderous roar shook the night air, a flash of light exploding through the sky.

Who would believe that such destruction could be done by throwing swords and other similar weapons? A countless number of Noble Phantasms rained down on the road of the warehouse town, which already looked like it had received carpet bombing.

And still, Archer's fierce attack didn't stop. The Noble Phantasms fell like thunderbolts, shot at Berserker's standing place with enough force to scatter anything away, and kept striking and striking and striking again. The attack was continuous, even increasing in violence. —Because the target, Berserker, just wouldn't fall down.

Everyone was shocked. Even in a critical situation with a great number of enemies around, everyone shared the same thoughts.

This was a replay of the miracle of the first attack. Berserker just took the first halberd that came at him with his left hand, then swung left and right the sword in his right hand, repelling every single one of the following Noble Phantasms away.

Such a technique was subtle and flawless. There was grandeur in it. Even with a Noble Phantasm snatched from Archer, the handling wasn't poor by a bit. He was swinging them around freely, like extensions of his arms; it simply looked like a demonstration of his polished skills with the favorite weapons he had specialized in for years.

Both offense and defense followed their course together.


 You should also know, if the user is able to use a weapon as if it was an extension of their arm. It is consider to be a mastery over that weapon. And the fact that Berserker can turning anything to a C level noble phantasm means anything is his weapon, but since he's weilding Arondight he's already wielding a potential city buster also its considered to have the same divinity as Excalibur. Arondight also have slain dragons. As for the strength for Berserker well idk really i never gotten that fare, but with what paladin has posted for me i believe its quite considerable.

Paladin
Wolverine gets brutally maulled and speedblitzed. His healing factor only lets him keep up for a little while.
Zero Berserker made a 9mm bullet from his submachinegun powerful enough to push back a 10 ton truck like a tennis ball. The same Berserker rode on the top of an F15J fighter jet like he's surfing and made the plane so fast the pilot instantly died of the sudden acceleration. Did I mention that when they finally shot the jet down, Berserker ripped out the F15J's nose chaingun to shoot Saber in the middle of his free fall?
Zero Berserker might be insane but insanely badass. 

Post by ReiKai (3,509 posts) See mini bio Level 10
Clearly you've never read Berserk. The Godhand are nearly omnipotent. They control reality and all else. Supposed planet-busting an such are utterly meaningless to entities that can warp minds and dimensions, time and space and control your very soul and Destiny itself. They control Causality; the flow of Cause and Effect in the Universe. They dwell within the furthest depths of the Astral Realm.
 
Put it this way. This is Ganishka, the Kushan Emperor, after using Kushan sorcery and the Apostle Womb he created to make his fiend armies to Re-incarnate himself (an Apostle is a reincarnation of their former self).
  
He is quite literally crushing a city underfoot. And Griffith/Femto defeats him effortlessly.
 
Here's something else. Gutts' sword is not a Noble Phantasm or anything like that. Originally it was just a massive sword made of Iron taken from a cave where Elves once dwelled, making the iron somewhat special. What makes Gutts' sword so powerful is the fact he's been steeped in the Interstice, the space where the physical world and the astral planes intersect, for so long while killing Apostles and all manner of demons, spirits and phantasms that the Sword, known as  the Dragon Slayer, became infused with those very properties, having slain thousands of such things and has only grown more and more powerful with each supernatural beast slain. It even pierced the advented form of one of the Godhand, who actually felt pain from it.
Post by ToxicFume (210 posts) See mini bio Level 5
@ReiKai: I don't see how you miss this part.

 Also killing gods isn't anything new to Gilgamesh, take Enkidu for example. More the divinity the thing has the stronger the chains get.  

Even demons can be considered to contain some sort of divine aspect. For example if you take it from a Biblical stand point The Devil is a fallen angel.  Also i think your over estimating the God hands too much.  

 The Godhand are just really strong demons and they obviously aren't that powerful since they cannot freely act in Guts' material world because they need someone to willingly activate the Behelit and sacrifice something to appear. They also apparently needed Griffith for their plans to work and at least one of them wanted Guts to join them even though they already had Griffith.

Then the case of the weapon comes to play. If you couldn't comprehend what paladin comment said, and the possibility of it will explain it for you. If Berserker can accelerate an object or in this case strengthen it beyond what natures rules it. As said "A bullet moving a 10 ton truck as if it was a tennis ball and accelerating a plane to a point that the pilot died due to the sudden increase of acceleration." wouldn't Berserker be able to do the same with his weapon. Also the fact Arondight is on the same caliber as Excalibur, then it should share the same divine aspects. 
Post by paladin (1,192 posts) See mini bio Level 13
@ReiKai: Building busting and fire isn't something radical in FSN. Servants tear up steel by just a wind of their normal attacks. Zero Lancer and Saber destroyed a roughly 100 meter radius area with a playful sparing match.
Also you should back up your claims better, Raigen. Guts has no supersonic feats, not to mention hypersonic. Saber is easily supersonic(the novel directly mentioned her as such) and can increase his speed by 3 times if she applies her Invisible Air as a booster. Yet Berserker cornered her about every single time.
Unless you bring up a feat that can be obviously supersonic, Berserker brutally blitzes him.
@ReiKai said:

" Clearly you've never read Berserk. The Godhand are nearly omnipotent. They control reality and all else. Supposed planet-busting an such are utterly meaningless to entities that can warp minds and dimensions, time and space and control your very soul and Destiny itself. They control Causality; the flow of Cause and Effect in the Universe. They dwell within the furthest depths of the Astral Realm. "

Agree, they are roguhly at abstract level. Normal methods simply won't work. Their casualty manipulation and mind-rape is hard to deal with. But the power of the God hand has no revelance to Guts since well...They're juast toying with him and so much over Guts in level that it isn't even funny.
  @ReiKai said:

" Put it this way. This is Ganishka, the Kushan Emperor, after using Kushan sorcery and the Apostle Womb he created to make his fiend armies to Re-incarnate himself (an Apostle is a reincarnation of their former self).
   He is quite literally crushing a city underfoot. And Griffith/Femto defeats him effortlessly. "

Saber's Excalibur and Gilgamesh's Ea would've done the same. Saber vaporized an instant-regenerating 5-600 meters high tentacle monster on atomic level. Ganishka's colossal form has no durability feats whatsoever, neither obvious form of regeneration. That was just a huge monstrosity that destroyed everything without any cause.
@ReiKai said:

" Here's something else. Gutts' sword is not a Noble Phantasm or anything like that. Originally it was just a massive sword made of Iron taken from a cave where Elves once dwelled, making the iron somewhat special. What makes Gutts' sword so powerful is the fact he's been steeped in the Interstice, the space where the physical world and the astral planes intersect, for so long while killing Apostles and all manner of demons, spirits and phantasms that the Sword, known as  the Dragon Slayer, became infused with those very properties, having slain thousands of such things and has only grown more and more powerful with each supernatural beast slain. It even pierced the advented form of one of the Godhand, who actually felt pain from it. "

Guts' sword can harm spirits. To put it bluntly that's all it can do. Probably it can hurt Servants...given if he ever manages to land a hit. No other weapon of his would work though.
 
 And no, the sword did nothing to Slan. She actually laughed and get off on the Dragonslayer to Guts' disgust . It's very obvious that the sword did nothing to Slan. Also that was just a made-up body from the corpses of trolls...ironic considering that Slan used that occasion exactly for trolling Guts.:)
Post by ReiKai (3,509 posts) See mini bio Level 10

 Even demons can be considered to contain some sort of divine aspect. For example if you take it from a Biblical stand point The Devil is a fallen angel.  Also i think your over estimating the God hands too much.

Except this has nothing to do with divinity and Berserk has a completely different system than either F/S and Christian mythos. *sigh* this is really why you need to read the series. There is nothing divine about them save the belief that they are the "Five Angels" as foretold in the Religion of the Holy See. They are completely wrong. The Godhand are the ones who instigated it to control people and weaken the belief in and powers of the spirits themselves, like the Undines and Salamanders, as well as the Four Spirit Kings. This also caused the persecution of Witches and the like as well as Witch Hunts to kill them, thus weakening magic users in Midland, and spreading fear amongst the masses. Basically stating "Believe in the religion of the Holy See or be condemned as a Heretic and burned at the stake".
 
The country of Midland itself was formed over a thousand years prior and was all but annihilated when the Emperor sacrificed his people to the Godhand in exchange for granting his wish. The Godhand can literally do just about anything they want and refuse to take full material forms, instead manipulating whatever they wish to gain temporary forms in the physical world with which to act through. They are everywhere and nowhere, at all times. The Godhand are Omnipresent and nearly Omniscient. The only ones outside of their view and influence are, in fact, those bearing the Brand of Sacrifice that the Godhand marked them with as part of the Ritual of Sacrifice, such as during the Eclipse Ceremony. For the most part, nobody survives after being branded as they die immediately afterwords. Gutts and Casca survived, partially due to Gutts' own tenacity and with aid from Skull Knight. However, because of the Brand they are now a step outside the Causal flow of the Universe. Basically they can't be controlled or manipulated, and the Brands themselves can't be removed without revoking Griffith's pact with the Godhand which, in fact, turned him into Femto, the Hawk of Darkness and King of the Godhand.
 

 Saber's Excalibur and Gilgamesh's Ea would've done the same. Saber vaporized an instant-regenerating 5-600 meters high tentacle monster on atomic level. Ganishka's colossal form has no durability feats whatsoever, neither obvious form of regeneration. That was just a huge monstrosity that destroyed everything without any cause. 

600m is 1800ft. Ganishka was breaking cloud cover. That's over 6000+ ft tall. Thing is, if Ganishka hadn't taken this form, Griffith wouldn't have been able to destroy him while in physical form. If Ganishka had remained as he was before as an Astral being manipulating Fog to create a form for himself and generate lightning, he could've kept in power. But that means nothing since Ganishka's actions are all under the control of the Godhand's influence. Also, for Griffith/Femto, it's been said he has the presence a Supreme Being. Shierke explained that facing him and the Godhand is like a character in a story trying to take on the Writer; It can't be done.
 
However, that's where things turn with Gutts, who is, thanks to the Godhand, outside the written flow of the story and is the only one capable of challenging the Writer(s).
 

 But the power of the God hand has no revelance to Guts since well...They're juast toying with him and so much over Guts in level that it isn't even funny. 

Slan did try screwing around with Gutts, in one of the Astral planes. She tore a gash in his body and soul, and Gutts in turn impaled her with the Dragon Slayer which reached her Abstract form enough to cause her injury. She retreated from that dimension and, due to her forced advent and withdrawl, started the collapse of tghat area of the domain. This was after trying to egg Gutts on into using the Behelit in his possession to have his wish granted, which would turn Gutts into an Apostle and thus under the control of the Godhand. You can say the Godhand are just screwing with him, but that's not entirely true. There's not much they can actually do about him because of the fact they Branded him and altered his Destiny, which can no longer be directly influenced by them.
 

 Building busting and fire isn't something radical in FSN. Servants tear up steel by just a wind of their normal attacks.

Gutts was tearing through multiple people in full plate and chain armor, and their weapons, with single swings of his sword, and this was before the Eclipse. After getting the B-Armor, Gutts has been hit with Ganishka's lightning, which can reduce even Apostles to ash and was burned with Hellfire by a God of Woe, the Wheel of Flame, in order to take out a spirit beast under the command of Paramarisha Sen'an'i Daiba, which was the equivalent to a Water God. And they fought at a harbor where there was basically an endless supply of water for Daiba to use and manipulate, which he could shoot as water jets with enough force to rend diamond.
Post by willyvereb (5,914 posts) See mini bio Level 17
@ReiKai: 
That all is just massive side-talking.
First, I don't remember those lightnings ever turning Apostoles to dust. They were just deadly like...the lightning.
Also you haven't shown any speed feats even after people repeatedly asked you. Unless Guts can move at hypersonic speeds, he has no chance against Zero Berserker. Simple as that.
Post by FoolyCooly (676 posts) See mini bio Level 9
@ReiKai said:
" Gutts can kill incorporeal spirits/entities/demons. He's also hypersonic. He split Gruhnbelds corundum armor (basically it's diamond). "
he compaired it to steel
Post by willyvereb (5,914 posts) See mini bio Level 17
@FoolyCooly:
FLCL1 is that you?
Post by FoolyCooly (676 posts) See mini bio Level 9
@willyvereb said:
" @FoolyCooly: FLCL1 is that you? "
yes? lol
Mandatory Network

Submissions can take several hours to be approved.

Save ChangesCancel