Avatar Aang vs Kakashi

Topic started by sharingan_eyes on Sept. 4, 2011. Last post by Haofan123 2 years, 10 months ago.
Post by MisterShin (2,122 posts) See mini bio Level 14
@321zigzag1 said:
  

 
 
 @MisterShin: 
 I know reaction and movement are totally different things. But his was more of aim dodge like reaction/reflex than he reacted to it after it was fired. Thats my point hence Iroh being hypersonic reaction is likely not true, and also its massively inconsistent.  
I guess Sokka is also supersonic in reaction because he reacted to Combustion man's flame?

 
  
 THe OP changed it to being Avatar State Aang. Aang doesn't start out in base mode. Aang is going to just tear everything apart in landscape. 
 
                                    Avatar State Aang likes to fly most of the time though in full all out combat, doesn't mean AAng won't do what you said though.
Aang Mastered the Avatar State at the End of the Series. 
OP also stated that he has Mastered it as well. 
 
So Aang would not be tearing everything in the landscape, thats not how he behaves in the Avatar State with Morals ON at the End of the Series. 
 
Movement Speed & Reation Speed are not important for this fight IMO.  
So im gonna stop commenting on it.  
Aang nor anyone from Naruto, has displayed the reactions to avoid Kamui. 

@Haofan123 said:
@MisterShin: What is this "Aang will find Kakashi first" stuff? its not search and destroy, its a head to head fight. Just because it is a random encounter doesn't mean they have to locate each other before they can fight each other
I assumed by "Random Encounter" they would not be right beside each other. 
If they are right beside each other, then it no longer a match.  Its a clear Stomp everytime.
Post by 321zigzag1 (637 posts) See mini bio Level 9

@MisterShin:  
 
Mister Shin there is no need to state what we both know. Yes Aang got it in the end and mastered We know that. The Avatar State Aang that fought with Ozari was still with morals on. He just was just more fearsome.  
 
For Kakashi his reaction speed is more important because of his kamui.  
 
 
You claim no one in Naruto can avoid kamui. Top tier Naruto speedsters the sheer ones. Such as RM Naruto, Raikage, Gated Gai for example can because they are the pinnacle in speed. Minus Minato with teleportation. 
 

 
 

@DJSNuva1: 


Aang never did bloodbending. Sure one can argue that past avatars might know but we don't know that. It was Hama who supposedly "invented" bloodbending for the first time. Also you need the full moon for it anyway. Now you can go argue that Avatar State augments the power full moo can provide but then again we don't know the relation to bloodbending They should clear it bit more up.  
Post by MisterShin (2,122 posts) See mini bio Level 14
@321zigzag1 said:  

You claim no one in Naruto can avoid kamui. Top tier Naruto speedsters the sheer ones. Such as RM Naruto, Raikage, Gated Gai for example can because they are the pinnacle in speed. Minus Minato with teleportation. 

They cannot avoid Kamui: 
1. Its invisible so they would not see it coming. 
2. Kakashi does not require many movement or gesture to activate it. 
3. The only way they would know that Kakashi is attacking them with Kamui, is if they happen to see the tomoe on his eye spinning. (This would require great eye-sight, unless you are at close combat)
 
Madara is the only one who can bypass the technique, because he is intangible. 
All the people you mentioned have no chance of avoiding it.  
 
The only way they can avoid it, is if they are already in movement, BEFORE Kakashi activates it. 
If it is a Battle Forum match-up the characters you listed, lose to the Kamui. 

Post by 321zigzag1 (637 posts) See mini bio Level 9
@MisterShin
1. Which is why Deidara was able to notice it, he saw the dimensional hole, although partially because kamui back then took much longer to go on. Pain didn't know notice it at first because Kakashi used it on a small nail split second before it hit him 
2. Doesn't much matter here.  
3. Which is why Deidara was able to comment on it, although Kamui back then wasn't as instant. The top tier naruto speedsters they have much greater reflexes than Deidara anyway. Distance actually will play a role to.  
  
YOu don't seem to know this.  
 
A split second they hesitate then they are likely gone, but again it also depends on how fast Kakashi can track them too. Plus bigger targets take a bit more time as well they are not nails or missiles my friend.  
 
You act like they are going to stand there few seconds. They aren't. Unless they are retarded of course. 
 
 
You never factored in blitz haven't you. (depending on distance) There is a reason why bloodlust Kakashi is still not pinnacle sheer top tier of all top tier in Narutoverse.
Post by MisterShin (2,122 posts) See mini bio Level 14
@321zigzag1:  
1. Against Deidara, YES it was much slower then. 
2. It does matter considering ALL the character you mentioned need to ACTIVATE a Ninjutsu or Transform to gain those speeds. They are not even close to those speeds at base. 
3.  Deidara has a "Eye Scope", it is quite literally a telescope on his eye. (Thus he has excellent eye-sight from long range) 
Kamui was much slower back then as well. 
 
Kakashi sucked away Susanoo's Arrow quick enough & those are longer than human bodies.  
http://www.mangareader.net/93-45540-2/naruto/chapter-479.html
Sasuke fired TWO arrows as well, BEFORE Kakashi activated the Kamui. 
http://www.mangareader.net/93-47597-5/naruto/chapter-484.html 
 
Distance does come into it, BUT like i already mentioned before.  In Battle-Forum they would be right in-front of each other (unless specified other wise), from that distance they stand no-chance of escaping. He Kamui's their head off. 
 
Blitz?  The same way Naruto (Apparently the fastest in the Narutoverse) Blitz Itachi & Pain, oh wait ....

The people you have listed are all Close-Range fighters, Naruto & Gai are the only one with Long Range attacks. 
They only use those long-range techniques when their opponent. Is a long-range specialist (e.g. Pain & Kisame). Pain & Kisame always unleash techniques to create distance. 
Kakashi is the opposite, he is a close-range fighter and uses techniques to close distance. (e.g. Raikiri to dash in close and personal) 
 
WTF Kakashi has always been Top Tier in Narutoverse.  
He was considered Kage Level, BEFORE he got his Mangekyou Sharingan. He was known and even feared in some villages. 
His Low Stamina & Chakra is his weakness, also his movement speed could be better.  
According to the latest Databook:  Kakashi has better stats that Gai, Kisame. Kakashi has slightly below Itachi.
Post by 321zigzag1 (637 posts) See mini bio Level 9
@MisterShin
Hmmm very well for now. Perhaps if Kakashi started out using Kamui on them first then that might be possible.  
 
 
RM Naruto wasn't going all out my friend. He wanted to talk remember? Of all of them RM Naruto actually held himself back. Its pretty obvious.  
 
MisterShin, you may not know this, but Kakashi was never top tier ever without kamui he was always high tier, you think this is my only opinion? He was always outshines by others. Now with Kamui he becomes strong enough to compete with all of them but again ever since the introduction of Rinnegan Madara and Kabuto the balance of power and top tier has been redefined. Pain is no longer the pinnacle and Pain and Kakashi are leagues apart.  
 
you got ot realize that kage level is broad definition right now partially because there are so many of them.  
 
Gai and Kisame aren't mid top tier either. Partially because of the introduction of new characters. With new feats Itachi >> Kakashi.  
 
You cannot use databook stats in that manner. They are not meant to be compared. His stats are the same to Sasori and orochimaru. Is he similar in prowess to Orochimari or Sasori in base fighting ability? Clearly not at all. Only with kamui with his usual strategic moves he can compete with them.
Post by MisterShin (2,122 posts) See mini bio Level 14
@321zigzag1 said:

@MisterShin: Hmmm very well for now. Perhaps if Kakashi started out using Kamui on them first then that might be possible.    RM Naruto wasn't going all out my friend. He wanted to talk remember? Of all of them RM Naruto actually held himself back. Its pretty obvious.   MisterShin, you may not know this, but Kakashi was never top tier ever without kamui he was always high tier, you think this is my only opinion? He was always outshines by others. Now with Kamui he becomes strong enough to compete with all of them but again ever since the introduction of Rinnegan Madara and Kabuto the balance of power and top tier has been redefined. Pain is no longer the pinnacle and Pain and Kakashi are leagues apart.   you got ot realize that kage level is broad definition right now partially because there are so many of them.   Gai and Kisame aren't mid top tier either. Partially because of the introduction of new characters. With new feats Itachi >> Kakashi.   You cannot use databook stats in that manner. They are not meant to be compared. His stats are the same to Sasori and orochimaru. Is he similar in prowess to Orochimari or Sasori in base fighting ability? Clearly not at all. Only with kamui with his usual strategic moves he can compete with them.

Yes this is all correct. 
My perspective of the Top Tier is different from your own, but i agree with the rest. 
I cannot place Madara as a Top Tier yet. His feats does not prove this.
Past Madara =  featless in battle
Current Madara = going to be Top Tier, however featless in battle.   
Post by DJSNuva1 (3,347 posts) See mini bio Level 11
@321zigzag1: It's true, Avatar TLA is too vague on the matter to prove that Aang can do Bloodbending.
Post by acarter (717 posts) See mini bio Level 10
Kamui would not work on really fast char like the char's mentioned above 
& it is not an instant move
Post by 321zigzag1 (637 posts) See mini bio Level 9
@acarter
Its not instant but the speed of it has improved. If top tier speedsters keep speeding, Kakashi will have trouble following it. The attack is not invisible.  
 
@MisterShin: 
My perpestictive of top tier is from enlarged from mainly NBD but few other naruto oriented battle forums I sometimes lurk here and there.  
 
If you put Kakashi as top tier then you got broaden that scope so much that it becomes a bit ridiculous. There are many characters stronger than Kakashi anyway.  
 
Gedo Mazo belongs to Madara. Although yes Madara is featless for the rest other than Pre Rinnegan one.
 
Also one thing I forgot to mention on the susanoo arrow part. It was linear speed coming towards Kakashi. A human is vertical, the arrow was horizontal thats why it was much easier to warp it.
Post by Hellos (2,482 posts) See mini bio Level 11
 
Kakashi, potentially through the use of a lightning clone(unless he sticks with a water clone to scope out Aang).  
Kamui generally isn't a first use due to it's apparent after effects that really wear out Kakashi with each use.
Post by acarter (717 posts) See mini bio Level 10
i think there is a lil overestimating of Kakashi here 
the battle is more even if not it is in the avatar's favor
its easy 2 get overwhelmed when everybody is clearly underestimating 1 character & overestimating the other  
Post by MrASSH0LE (2,321 posts) See mini bio Level 12
Online Now
@MisterShin said:
he would not use Kamui on a Kid
Tell that to the Sauce...
Post by DawnToDarkness (68 posts) See mini bio Level 7
can kakashi copy aangs moves that effictivly. if you think about it he wont be able to for example use fire jutsu without wasiting chakra whereas aang can just make it.. the only way kakashi will win is if he assasinates him and if morals are on he wont do that ?
Post by Haofan123 (3,675 posts) See mini bio Level 13
@DawnToDarkness said:
can kakashi copy aangs moves that effictivly. if you think about it he wont be able to for example use fire jutsu without wasiting chakra whereas aang can just make it.. the only way kakashi will win is if he assasinates him and if morals are on he wont do that ?
Kakashi cant use fire jutsu. His elemental affinities are waer, earth, and lightning. He kills aang through kamui though
Post by Kurohige (3,681 posts) See mini bio Level 19
@Haofan123
I hope you're joking, fire style was the first Jutsu Kakashi used in Shipuuden not to mention using sharingan against fire users, (Sasuke, Itachi,  ect)
 
 
Post by 321zigzag1 (637 posts) See mini bio Level 9
@Kurohige:  
anime filler technically
 
 

@DawnToDarkness: 
I don't see Kakashi copying Bender movements which are akin to the usual ----kinesis of various elements.
Post by Kurohige (3,681 posts) See mini bio Level 19
@321zigzag1
Noooooooo! Well he should still know it, I mean he fought plenty of fire style users and almost every leaf Jonin can use the technique.
Post by Haofan123 (3,675 posts) See mini bio Level 13
@Kurohige said:
@Haofan123
I hope you're joking, fire style was the first Jutsu Kakashi used in Shipuuden not to mention using sharingan against fire users, (Sasuke, Itachi,  ect)
sorry, didnt see this post. That was anime filler so he doesnt actually know any fire style jutsu. Sure hes seen it used before, but he damn well cant use any
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