Avatar Aang vs Kakashi

Topic started by sharingan_eyes on Sept. 4, 2011. Last post by Haofan123 3 years ago.
Post by MisterShin (2,125 posts) See mini bio Level 14
@YouFinished said:
@321zigzag1 said:
@YouFinished: I really doubt Kakashi is going to effectively pierce Aang's giant wind shield with Raikiri even it could Aang in his avatar state becomes fast enough to counter. Also to Kakashi wind > lightning mentality may affect him, so he is likely to use raikiri as a misdirection with a clone. Kamui is the only effective move he has. 
when i posted that, the OP said he couldn't go into avatar state, it was edited.  And i have to agree with you somewhat. Aang's shield would be too much for Kakkashi to by pass. But still Aang is slower. Copy Cat could still get aang before he goes avatar state since he doesn't use it right off the bat (atleast i never seen him have). 
At the EOS Aang masters the Avatar State and can activate it instantly. He can casually raises & sinks mountain sized quantities of land & water, he quite literally becomes a walking natural disaster. 
Aang is not slow, when compared to someone like Kakashi anyway. Aang has reacted to explosions, blocking the shockwaves with elemental manipulation, caught lightning ( it might have been aimed at him i think, but the reactions to manipulate it after being struck by lightning) etc etc.  <-- This is all in base 
 
The location has many trees & obstacles, i doubt Kakashi would be able to get a clear shot with Kamui. 
Due to it being a random encounter, Aang would locate Kakashi first. (He can feel vibrations underground due to earth manipulation) 
Considering Aang is in-character he would incapacitate Kakashi after sensing him, using (ice, water, earth). 
 
Kakashi would not attack an opponent straight away with Kamui, he mostly starts with Genjutsu or tests & analyses his opponent. 
Kakashi would never consider Aang a threat at first sight and would not consider using Kamui on a kid. 
 
Due to: 
Random Encounter,  Many obstacles in the location, Aang can sense Kakashi from a long distance way and incapacitate. 
I sure Aang wins 
 
In fact Aang could win without Kakashi even seeing Aang at all, Aang could tunnel underground from the start, sense his footstep vibrations on the earth and incapacitate accordingly.
Post by 321zigzag1 (648 posts) See mini bio Level 9
@MisterShin
You better not be implying bender generated lightning is suddenly massively even above sound because that would make it incredibly inconsistent. Kakashi uses kamui in conjunction with his clones. 4 elements is the only real advantage aang has in base.  
 
Your so called Aang wins via incapicitation is low probability especially with using Earthbending, Aang is in character here. Kakashi can easily get out having his head on the ground assuming he gets caught in it. Do not underesimate immense speed.   
Aang is not a tunneler type fighter.  
 
Also his earth sense was never shown to be that wide either. He is still an airbender at heart. You scenario for Aang's victory fits much more when speed is equalized.

 
@Haofan123:
That so called Combustion moves, even Sokka was reacting to it I guess he has supersonic reactions too?  Even if it is its likely pretty low.
Post by Jflash94 (738 posts) See mini bio Level 8
Actually that is possible since regular humans in avatar have reacted to pretty fast things, especially the swordsmen sokka learned from who helped free the earth nation
 
and yes Aang is an air bender at heart but he has been shown to use all of the elements even when he was fighting the fire lord, he used earth bender as a strong defense before he went avatar state.  
 
Lastly the lightning is incredibly fast, because people usually dodge it when its being directed, meaning they are predicting where the person is going to direct the lightning.  They are only  capable of redirecting it which shows a good reaction time
Post by YouFinished (1,035 posts) See mini bio Level 9
@Haofan123:  
Yeah, and kakkashi should be supersonic+ since he was somewhat keeping up with deva pain. 
@MisterShin:  
the lightning feat is inconsistent. and aang has never used avatar state right at the beginning (he's never really had the chance).  also, as you say kakkashi wouldn't attack someone straight away with kamui, aang wouldn't attack straight away in avatar state.  I'm still going with Copy Cat even if the rules were changed. He can still win via BFR aka Kamui.
Post by Haofan123 (3,675 posts) See mini bio Level 13
@YouFinished said:
@Haofan123:  
Yeah, and kakkashi should be supersonic+ since he was somewhat keeping up with deva pain. 

You got that straight from the OBD huh?. I think he has supesonic+ reaction time since he was able to warp away sasukes susanoo arrow, but him movement speed is far inferior considering he said he was unable to dodge sasukes arrow which should have only been supersonic at best
Post by Agent9149 (481 posts) See mini bio Level 11
avatar aang
 
he can do heavy long range damage not to mention FLY, i doubt Kakashi will be able to get a hold on him
Post by Haofan123 (3,675 posts) See mini bio Level 13
@Agent9149 said:
avatar aang  he can do heavy long range damage not to mention FLY, i doubt Kakashi will be able to get a hold on him
Kakashi can warp away supersonic projectiles. Aang shouldn't be a problem
Post by MisterShin (2,125 posts) See mini bio Level 14
@321zigzag1 said:

@MisterShin: You better not be implying bender generated lightning is suddenly massively even above sound because that would make it incredibly inconsistent. Kakashi uses kamui in conjunction with his clones. 4 elements is the only real advantage aang has in base.   

Kakashi's only method of victory is Kamui without it he loses. 
 
Iroh caught lightning from the sky, obviously he is not lightning speed nor a lightning timer.  
However his reactions are at least hypersonic to be able to redirect the lightning through his body.  If not he would have been electrocuted. 
Avatar Aang > Iroh.  
Also i did say Reactions before didnt I?  
His actual speed is arguably supersonic. Kakashi is not Supersonic either (could not make Pains 5 sec recharge time).
 
You are underestimating Aang, he can casually raise the sea level, create a large whirlpool to suck Kakashi into the water and then Freeze it. 
       
   
Start from 4:30  
 
Lastly they are in-character remember.
Post by YouFinished (1,035 posts) See mini bio Level 9
@Haofan123 said:
@YouFinished said:
@Haofan123:  
Yeah, and kakkashi should be supersonic+ since he was somewhat keeping up with deva pain. 

You got that straight from the OBD huh?. I think he has supesonic+ reaction time since he was able to warp away sasukes susanoo arrow, but him movement speed is far inferior considering he said he was unable to dodge sasukes arrow which should have only been supersonic at best
Lol, yeah, i can tell you got your info straight from obd too. but i agree, his long distance movement speed shouldn't be that good. That's why starting distance is always important in battle threads, though we don't have one here. Maybe the the battle threads should adopt a "standard battle conditions" thing, like standard starting distance, standard location, standard morals, or something of the kind. It would help ever so much since most OP don't include them.
Post by Haofan123 (3,675 posts) See mini bio Level 13
@YouFinished said:

@Haofan123 said:

@YouFinished said:
@Haofan123:  
Yeah, and kakkashi should be supersonic+ since he was somewhat keeping up with deva pain. 

You got that straight from the OBD huh?. I think he has supesonic+ reaction time since he was able to warp away sasukes susanoo arrow, but him movement speed is far inferior considering he said he was unable to dodge sasukes arrow which should have only been supersonic at best
Lol, yeah, i can tell you got your info straight from obd too. but i agree, his long distance movement speed shouldn't be that good. That's why starting distance is always important in battle threads, though we don't have one here. Maybe the the battle threads should adopt a "standard battle conditions" thing, like standard starting distance, standard location, standard morals, or something of the kind. It would help ever so much since most OP don't include them.
I can see where you're coming form, but I dont neccicarilly think it should be required all the time. However, I agree with you that battles like this should have a set distance
Post by Destinyheroknight (10,278 posts) See mini bio Level 21

@YouFinished:

Maybe the the battle threads should adopt a "standard battle conditions" thing, like standard starting distance, standard location, standard morals, or something of the kind. It would help ever so much since most OP don't include them.

It kind of part of the rules, but no one but a few people follow them

Up close Kakashi wins

A far Kakashi might win 70/30

Post by YouFinished (1,035 posts) See mini bio Level 9
@Destinyheroknight said: 

It kind of part of the rules, but no one but a few people follow them

yeah, i know. thats why it would be good to get one. it would be easier to make decisions in battle and analyze the situation if the OP is too lazy or stupid to put them in.
Post by MisterShin (2,125 posts) See mini bio Level 14
@Destinyheroknight said:

@YouFinished:

Maybe the the battle threads should adopt a "standard battle conditions" thing, like standard starting distance, standard location, standard morals, or something of the kind. It would help ever so much since most OP don't include them.

It kind of part of the rules, but no one but a few people follow them

Up close Kakashi wins

A far Kakashi might win 70/30

Its a Random Encounter, meaning that they likely would not be close range or within sight of each other. 

Because he is in-character, he would not use Kamui on a Kid, Let alone as his first form of attack. (He didn't against Pain, who he knew was a major threat to Naruto & the Village) 
Because Aang is in-character, he cant simply erupt a volcano underneath Kakashi or throw a hill sized chunks of earth at him etc etc. 
 
People also forgetting Aang can merge with the Ocean Spirit. 
Post by 321zigzag1 (648 posts) See mini bio Level 9
@MisterShin
Avatar Aang is not supersonic. He is just very much faster than eye, subsonic in avatar mode.  I don't know where you got supersonic in movement from for him.
 
As for Kakashi well he will be low supersonic at best. He couldn't exploit Deva's Path 5 seconds because Deva Path has amazing reflexes and plus Asura Path blocked for him.  
 
There is no Ocean Spirit also Aang in character does not erupt a volcano even in Avatar State.  Base Aang is not that powerful in Narutoverse standards at all other than elemental versatility. Its Avatar State that can compete with top tier and high tier naruto.   
 
I am not underestimating Avatar State Aang, did you not read my post that Kamui is Kakashi's only chance? I was referring to base Aang whose feats is much inferior to Avatar state.
 
You are correct that Kakashi can only use Kamui against Avatar State but for Base Aang? No. I don't know if you said that for Base Aang but just in case.  
Originally this was just base aang.  
 
You realize that Iroh in the cartoon, actually put his hand up before the lightning launched? There goes your so called hypersonic reaction. Even if it is, its incredibly inconsistent with the rest of the series. You can't use an insane outlier, if you do youmight as well start going Zuko is hypersonic too.  

Actually Kakashi was going to against Madara with Kamui.  As for you in character statement. Considering Avatar Aang is a literal natural disaster don't you think Kakashi would soon realize Kamui is his only choice? There is a difference. Kakashi is not stupid.  
 
So again Kamui or bust for Kakashi.
@Haofan123 said:


                    @Agent9149 said:


                    avatar aang  he can do heavy long range damage not to mention FLY, i doubt Kakashi will be able to get a hold on him

                   

               
Kakashi can warp away supersonic projectiles. Aang shouldn't be a problem

                   

               

Susanoo Arrow should be high end supersonic at least in speed but yes. 
@Jflash94 said:

Lastly the lightning is incredibly fast, because people usually dodge it when its being directed, meaning they are predicting where the person is going to direct the lightning.  They are only  capable of redirecting it which shows a good reaction time

                   

               

Zuko moved after the lightning was launched. Katara also had no trouble reacting to it. You can't possibly be assuming the lightning is above low supersonic at best.  
 
 
 
So again my verdict is this. Kamui is kakashi's real only chance which he can pull it off with clone misdirection in probability.
Post by Haofan123 (3,675 posts) See mini bio Level 13
Ok, so to avoid further complications, the majority rules that Kakashi would be victorious but only due to his kamui. Does that sound right?
Post by 321zigzag1 (648 posts) See mini bio Level 9

Pretty much, Kamui is only his only option. Mister Shin is relying on the argument that Kakashi in character is never going to use it right away. While that is true and yes Aang is just a kid. Kakashi is from a war torn world. Plus Avatar State Aang is a literal natural disaster. 
 
Its up to you if you believe Kakashi after witnessing Avatar State Aang is still stupid enough not to use Kamui, which is best used in conjunction with his clones.  
 
Kamui or bust if he fails in its usage. Thats all I am going to say.
Post by MisterShin (2,125 posts) See mini bio Level 14
@321zigzag1 said: 
You realize that Iroh in the cartoon, actually put his hand up before the lightning launched? There goes your so called hypersonic reaction. Even if it is, its incredibly inconsistent with the rest of the series. You can't use an insane outlier, if you do youmight as well start going Zuko is hypersonic too.  
reaction speed and movement speed are two very different things.  
If a human had light speed reactions, the cannot outrun a bullet, however they can dodge the bullet by reacting to it before it is fired (i.e. move their body the moment the person pulls the trigger). 
Iroh's feat is similar to this ^    
Iroh only reacts to the lightning the moment, he is struck by it and then manipulates it out of his body, before he receives bodily damage.
 
Iroh anticipated the lightning bolt, is hit but the lightning and redirects it out from his body.  
Zuko did it also, however he got paralysed by the lightning afterwards, because he hesitated during the feat.  
Meaning that if they do not redirect the lightning out of their body quick enough, they risk receiving the full effect of the lightning .     
 
It is not lightning speed reactions, because he welcomes the lightning into himself. The reaction's partition lies, in his ability to manipulate it out of his body before he receives damage. 
Not to mention Aang has displayed good reaction feats against the Combustion Man. 
 
Besides reactions wont help Aang in this fight anyway. Its not like anyone can react to Kamui anyway, and Kakashi can activate it without a gesture.
 
@321zigzag1 said: 
Actually Kakashi was going to against Madara with Kamui.  As for you in character statement. Considering Avatar Aang is a literal natural disaster don't you think Kakashi would soon realize Kamui is his only choice? There is a difference. Kakashi is not stupid.  
If Kakashi waits to consider if Aang is a threat or not then it would already be over.  
Considering that Aang would locate Kakashi first, in a location densely filled with trees, via vibrations.
  
@321zigzag1 said:
So again Kamui or bust for Kakashi. 
It was always Kamui or bust from the beginning.  
I was just implying that Kakashi would not use the technique straight away, because it makes him very weak after each usage.   
He was going to use it straight away on Madara, because he had encountered Madara before and knew he was a major threat.  
Kakashi also knew that Madara can be Intangible, so Kamui was really his only method of attack to use. (As you said, Kakashi aint stupid.  He wont use Raikiri or a similar technique on Madara coz it wont work on him) 
 
Verdict: 
Winner depends on who finds, who first. 
I believe that Aang would find Kakashi first by sensing vibrations on the ground and imprison or KO him right-off the bat. 
I believe if Kakashi gets his sights on Aang first, then it is all over for Aang.
Post by Haofan123 (3,675 posts) See mini bio Level 13
@MisterShin: What is this "Aang will find Kakashi first" stuff? its not search and destroy, its a head to head fight. Just because it is a random encounter doesn't mean they have to locate each other before they can fight each other
Post by 321zigzag1 (648 posts) See mini bio Level 9
  

 
 
 @MisterShin: 
 I know reaction and movement are totally different things. But his was more of aim dodge like reaction/reflex than he reacted to it after it was fired. Thats my point hence Iroh being hypersonic reaction is likely not true, and also its massively inconsistent.  
I guess Sokka is also supersonic in reaction because he reacted to Combustion man's flame?

 
  
 THe OP changed it to being Avatar State Aang. Aang doesn't start out in base mode. Aang is going to just tear everything apart in landscape. 
 
                    

                Avatar State Aang likes to fly most of the time though in full all out combat, doesn't mean AAng won't do what you said though.
Post by DJSNuva1 (3,347 posts) See mini bio Level 11
@321zigzag1
 
"Avatar Aang is not supersonic. He is just very much faster than eye, subsonic in avatar mode.  I don't know where you got supersonic in movement from for him"
 
In theory, Aang is supposed to be faster than lightning. There's also an argument to be made that Aang can do Bloodbending in the Avatar State.
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