Archer vs Gilgamesh

Topic started by willyvereb on Nov. 19, 2009. Last post by cfatalis 4 years, 8 months ago.
Post by willyvereb (5,914 posts) See mini bio Level 17
Well, well. Here we have it.
The GARest man in the animeverse vs the Lord Kinpika the Goldie King. 
 
The conditions:
-Gilgamesh is staying at the Ryoudo temple with the Grail.
-Archer is at perfect condition and has a whole day to think out a plan.
-Gilgamesh is irritated by Archer's copies, so he wants to defeat him in the ability of Noble Phantasms, like he did with Shirou.
-Neither of them has plot armor.

"So as I pray, Unlimited Blade Works!"
"So as I pray, Unlimited Blade Works!"

Pros and Cons:


 "King of Heroes, do you have enough swords?"
 "King of Heroes, do you have enough swords?"

Archer:                                                                                                                                                                  

-Excellent tactician and possesses the Eye of the Mind skill which help him accurately determine every situation
-Good at feint and his opponents often underestimate him.  Especially Gilgamesh who was never serious against anyone and held back just to prove his superiority until it was too late.
-Moderate knownledge of magecraft, though it hardly can help against Gil.
-Overedge: A skill which was hard to avoid for even Saber. Continuos tracing of Kanshou and Byakuya and throwing them like storm of boomerangs.
-Unlimited Blade Works: he can summon up any Noble Phantasm he memorised without much effort and at a nearly instant speed. Gate of Babylon needs a little time to call out the weapons and it also costs a little magical energy. On the top of that Gil have only one "copy" of each weapon and he can't replace them.
-Lack of Divinity: Enkidu(Chains of Heavens) is like an ordinary chain against him.
-Rho Aias: A protective shield which is believed to protect against any weapon. It's half-true because actually it can block anything until B rank(a B+ Noble Phantasm barely, but able to break through it). The average rank of the Noble Phantasms rained out from Gilgamesh's Gate of babylon is B.
-Tracing: He's able to copy any weapon after the instant he takes a look on it. Actually that's how he aquired his every weapon.
-Broken Phantasms: He can modify a Noble Phantasm by overcharging it, effectively making it into a bomb. It gives an extra rank bonus to it's power(B class Noble Phantasm upgrades to A etc...). He usually uses them as missiles from long distance. He's able to shoot from 4 kilometers.
-Hrunting: A Noble Phantasm which he uses solety as a missile. When he charges it up(it takes about 30 seconds to do so) he can shoot it from 4 kilometers with the speed of mach 13.2(about 4000m/s or more). Also Hrunting can home the target, though it's obviously unable to make 180 degrees turn.
 

Gilgamesh:                                                                                                                      

"Know your place, Faker!"                                                                                                                                                                                                                            
"Know your place, Faker!"                                                                                                                                                                                                                            
-Better physical stats: After Berserker, Gilgamesh has the best physical abilities. While Archer has the worst. 
-Possessor of almost every Noble Phantasms: He has weapons which later became known as Noble Phantasms or was the inspiration of making them. In practicular he has an unbelievable stash of Noble Phantasms at his disposal.
-Gate of Babylon: He can summon up any treasure of his. Which includes not only Noble Phantasm, but wine, potions, machines even an "UFO" and probably his furnitures too.
-Enkidu: A chain which is almost impossible to break if it catches someone with high Divinity(half-gods, saints etc...). It's greatest feature is the ability to pop out from almost anywhere, surprising the opponent, though it's true to anything which comes from the Gate of Babylon. He supposedly can call out his Noble phantasms anywhere at about 100 meters. Though as usual he tends to shoot them out from behind his back. Also Archer's UBW is able to do the same trick.
-GoB is always active. While UBW's realisation needs a long chant to activate and eats a lot of magic power to mantain. Gate of Babylon is always active and ready to rain out it's arsenal.
-Excellent judgement on somone's battle potencial.  He can judge and indentify Noble Phantasms by a mere glance and able to tell just how strong somone in an instant. Though he sometimes fail to determine it due to some rare factors, like somone possessing a Reality Marble or judging Avalon's true power.
-Ea:A sword believed to be cut the world in half. Gilgamesh finds it at his journey in the Underworld. Ranked Ex, Excalibur's power is hardly a mach for it. It's components older than the world itself and it's structure is unimagineable to any human...even to Archer(so he can't trace it).
-Gilgamesh has little worries unleashing very powerfull Noble Phantasms. While Archer due to his crude amount of Magic Circuits can't even use Excalibur(except if he wants to fry his brain with it:p )
 -Gilgamesh's soul equals the amount of five Heroic Spirits, showing how powerful he really is.  
-His golden armor is good enough to fend off dozens of full powered regular strikes from Saber. Archer has to either use one of his Noble Phantasm's powerful special ability or trace really high grade weapons to actually hurt him.
 
 
 So let's discuss!
Post by cfatalis (19,150 posts) See mini bio Level 15
@willyvereb: supposedly if we look only at typemoon stat , gil wins, then again archer kills berserker six times...... which he are supposedly unable to do
 
from that i pick gil due to his prime noble phantasm enuma elish, shirour when kicking hsi ass, has layers and layers of plot armor
Post by willyvereb (5,914 posts) See mini bio Level 17
Well, thick plot armor for Shirou on that certain scene of UBW is a great understatement.:)
 
I pick Gil too. While Archer is crafty and else he can't mach Gilgamesh who can call out newer and newer Noble Phantasms after he had enough of the whole Fake vs Original thing...
He can avoid the hailstorm of GoB by just erecting few shields around himself and then countering with an A++ or better anti-fortress Noble Phantasm. He can do it. Especially because he would take a Servant more seriously than a mere mage.(Battle Armor on, for example).
Post by cfatalis (19,150 posts) See mini bio Level 15
@willyvereb:another note would be archer decrease the rank of NP that he produce, while gil's is the archetype of the NP. and therefore has the same or supposedly better rank( look at exca and gram)
Post by willyvereb (5,914 posts) See mini bio Level 17
@cfatalis:
Well. Shirou managed somehow to best Gil's NPs.  It can be another stupid thing or an indication that inside UBW every the "one rank down" rule doesn't apply.
Post by Nerx (13,843 posts) See mini bio Level 12
Gil w/o CIS would have Gate of Babylowned Archer
 
he is sometimes underrated, felt bad when archer sniped him when he tried to Enkidu Shirou to the black hole thingy
Post by willyvereb (5,914 posts) See mini bio Level 17
You mean when he's been sucked in by the Grail? Well, it's pretty badass to come back from even that...perhaps he gained a nice sword to his head by Archer as a reward:p
 
And Actually even with his CIS he would be able to beat Shirou anytime. The problem is the PIS(Plot-inducted stupidity) and extreme luck factors(on Shirou's side) which actually made him lose.
But still Archer can be dangerous...especially if he tames up with another Servant to defeat Gil. With a good support he probably would be able to beat Gil.
Post by Nerx (13,843 posts) See mini bio Level 12
these guys are from one of the strongest anime, manga universes out there given a chance they can wipe out a HST universe, or wipe out a who lot of characters singlehandedly and it is a shame that not many people know them. Gilga is the plausible winner for this one as he would spam his barrage of weapons that would make senbonzakura look like a pinch of rice granules, the thing is Archer is not that lucky compared to shiro .
 
Nasuversr > HST
Post by willyvereb (5,914 posts) See mini bio Level 17
Well, Archer can do the same inside UBW, but the main problem is that Gilgamesh has a more diverse collection of weapons. While Archer has, say about 20 NPs to choose Gilgamesh has a hell of a collection.
Post by Nerx (13,843 posts) See mini bio Level 12
@willyvereb: nigh infinite
Post by AgentJ (1,545 posts) See mini bio Level 13
I do like this battle. Watched the last 8 episodes today with a friend of mine and did think of this a bit.  so good timing
Post by cfatalis (19,150 posts) See mini bio Level 15
@Nerx said:
" @willyvereb: nigh infinite "
not nigh infinite
 
example for every sword noble phantasm it have one common ancestor 
 
in this case the ancestor/original for excalibur, arondnight , and other wave motion sword is the Gram, and therefore gil has the gram and not arondnight and excalibur 
 
@willyvereb said:
" @cfatalis: Well. Shirou managed somehow to best Gil's NPs.  It can be another stupid thing or an indication that inside UBW every the "one rank down" rule doesn't apply. "

PLOT ARMOR, and instant skill 
@willyvereb said:
" Well, Archer can do the same inside UBW, but the main problem is that Gilgamesh has a more diverse collection of weapons. While Archer has, say about 20 NPs to choose Gilgamesh has a hell of a collection. "
technically of said servant is supplied  with, say huge ammount of mana he can materialize more than 20 NPs, remember shirou materialize kanshou and byakuya over and over again
 
so theoritically speaking, it's possible to make the noble phantasm below EX rank within UBW
Post by willyvereb (5,914 posts) See mini bio Level 17
Well a regular tracing of a sword costs Shirou 5 units of prana(according to typemoon wiki). I doubt it would cost any more for Archer.  Also Archer has about 12000 units of maximum capacity. He can make much much more than few projections. Though without UBW  active he can project only one at the time. Then his projections come out without any need for prana, but mantaining UBW costs insane amounts of energy.
 
And the instant skill is only as much as Archer possessed, so I think Archer can most probably do that. Perhaps I don't question the plot armor...which obviously helped out Shirou and even Archer many times.
Post by cfatalis (19,150 posts) See mini bio Level 15
@willyvereb: well they are the same person so to speak, and if we actually say that archer had infinite supply of mana by the master supplying him, that mean he can do things...., then again this is gilgamesh we are talking about, so far he only has been defeated by abilities that scream HAX all over it
Post by willyvereb (5,914 posts) See mini bio Level 17
Well, it's far from infinite supply(1200 is his maximum which he rarely gets even with an excellent Master), but enough for him to have his own sword raining ability.  The only thing he needs the prana mainly is for UBW and using the Noble Phantasms abilities(ie. Rho Aias)
Post by cfatalis (19,150 posts) See mini bio Level 15
and keeping his plot armor long enough for him to win, or at least look cool, and remember archer and saber has masters who refuse to take mana the easy way, while gil's master goes "anything goes"
Post by willyvereb (5,914 posts) See mini bio Level 17
No Kotomine is more like:"Everything goes if fun". And for Kirei fun means others' suffering. 
In essence the connection between Master and Servant should have an almost unlimited rate of prana transfer. In short if Rin doesn't regulate it, she can give him every bit of her prana...actually the forced/uncontrollable version of this what usually happened with every Masters with Berserker-class Servant(Illya is the only exception).
 And I know Archer should've died in UBW from quite some factors. damaged spiritual core, skewered body, OOM(xD ) etc...but  as I said in this fight no plot armor is involved there.
Post by cfatalis (19,150 posts) See mini bio Level 15
unlmited rate, the master mana is still limited, hence "eating people"
 
yeah true,archer should have died shitload of time, so is shirou
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