Alita (BAA&LO) vs Grand Master Luke Skywalker

Topic started by ReiKai on July 14, 2012. Last post by ReiKai 2 years, 8 months ago.
Post by ReiKai (3,550 posts) See mini bio Level 10
1st Match: Takes place at the ZOTT Arena. They are In Character.
2nd Match: Takes at the coliseum on Geonosis. PIS/CIS Are off.
Both matches start 10 meters apart.
Post by GIRUGAMESH (2,270 posts) See mini bio Level 10

I know that Alita is a android/cyborg with augmented fighting skills and weapons, but what are her feats? Does she have anything to prevent herself from being fried by an electric judgement?

Post by ReiKai (3,550 posts) See mini bio Level 10
Alita can create/control electromagnetic fields. So, yeah, lightning won't touch her. She can generate and control plasma as well. She can do other things to, like
Send a Soliton Wave through plasma to destroy Sachumodo's hands, which then created a full backlash and struck him full with the entire plasma ball. Basically, Luke's lightsaber is a liability and could be used against him easily.
Alita also has a limitless power source and a quantum link with the system that runs and maintains all such systems and information in the solar system. (it's also connected to over 20thousand human brains directly connected in to form a matrix used to read the karmic flow of the universe. The original system was designed to predict the future and was 100% accurate).
In short, not only does Alita have infinite stamina, but she can'd be mindscrewed either. 
Post by ReiKai (3,550 posts) See mini bio Level 10
When has Luke ever done anything even remotely like what you're attempting to propose? For one, Luke doesn't have anywhere near that kind of ability. Secondly, he'd have to Stand There and concentrate completely on something and Alita could kill him instantly.  Could Luke even make a focus attempt when his mechanical right hand is choking him to death?
Precog only allows him to perceive a possible future based on actions and Intentions. Caerula Sanguis, who gave Alita the Fata Morganna, said she had an "Unknowable destiny".  Of course, I don't use that. What I do use is Alita actually Projecting her Intention to make Luke's precog completely worthless.
Honestly, while Luke stands there wasting time Thinking about what he should do, Alita will have already killed him with one blow.

Not that Alita would even need to Punch him. A single touch would kill him. One touch and his brain will explode violently inside his skull.   
Post by ReiKai (3,550 posts) See mini bio Level 10
And, again, that's not something Luke can do on a Whim or with just a Thought. It required his complete Focus and Concentration. And no, Jedi Precog is not Instinctual. It's based entirely on sensing anothers Intentions or strong emotions of bloodlust, which alerts them seconds before an attack. However when it's Indirect, they tend to fail to notice it in time, or if the attack wasn't Pre-Planned and was more a random act, their precog can't pick up on it.
So put it this way. If Alita projected the Intention of punching him in the face, but in actuality was ripping his spine out, then Luke would pick up on getting punched in the Face and nothing else.
And again, Lifting objects with TK isn't the same as defending himself. Show some actually defenses with Luke involving TK against attacks. Master Thon in KotoR era blocked turret blaster fire from a pirate ship using a Force Shield. So show me what Luke can Actually defend against and not your baseless speculation.
This is how it will end up. Luke will make some kind of attack on Alita. He will believe it hit. He will be wrong. And in the same instant, she will kick his head off.

And you really wanna argue about Power? Alita has the power source that generated Tunguska's Jovian Cannon.

  It ripped through 5 layers of energy shielding, each capable of stopping a nuclear blast. And it cut through them like it was butter.
Post by ReiKai (3,550 posts) See mini bio Level 10
@FalconC2 said:
You're forgetting to mention that Alita can't use the laser that the Jupiter Weapon had. She has the connection to the wormhole generator which provides her with an inexhaustible source of power/stamina but it does not let her fire off energy like that
Actually, it can if she wants to as it provided the very power necessary for the Jupiter Cannon employed by Tunguska. You seem to forget (or maybe I never mentioned it?) that Alita can control and change the form of any part of her body at will. If she so desired it, she could change any part of her body into the necessary formation to create the Jupiter Cannon and utilize the Wormhole Power Reactor in her chest to fire it. After all she'd already sent her Corrosive Nanomachines through the Wormhole and infected the Jupiter Ring statio and altered its form to prevent them from interfering with her, in effect taking full control of it.

Anyway, as usual, you're understating force precognition.

No, I'm really not. Their Battle Precog is far from perfect as is based off the intentions of those around them. If you're trying to go for Actual Foresight and foreseeing the future, no they don't do that in battle. That, in most cases, is something that either happens out of the blue as a Warning from the Force about a potential Future, or something that can only be seen through meditation (which means sitting there and concentrating). Which, again, makes it completely useless since that'd require preptime.

You've made the same claims over and over, for instance "Oh, but he has to become one with the force first to do that." or "Force precognition does not work that way, and it's not that powerful." and "He can't use his telekinesis that way or defend with it." You say all that stuff but the only thing you've supported it with is your own bias. Any Jedi or Sith worth their salt can defend himself with telekinesis, and considering how powerful Luke's telekinesis is there's no reason why he can't apply that same power in defense.

90% of the time when "defending" themselves, it's a Small barrier dedicated solely to preventing a Force Using opponent from TK'ing their weapon right out of their hands. It doesn't protect them from injury. To create an actual Force Shield requires more power and greater focus and, in general, someone smart enough to put one up beforehand in the event they get hit with something like a grenade or a pulse blast right in the belly. Other times it was to cushion the impact of a fall so it wouldn't kill them; ie, Darth Bane using such when he had the Orbalisk Armor to protect himself after falling a hundred feet or so and the release of his force create a small crater around him. He survived with minimal injury.
This, however, is not a "I can stop missiles and super-cannons from hurting me" ability. And unless you can actually show Luke using a TK shield to block an object or energy weapon streaking at him at a speed in excess of high-hypersonic with individuals whose blows resemble small nuclear detonations, then your Theory that Luke can whip up a TK defense strong enough to save him from instantaneous death is unsubstantiated and therefor useless.
And no, I am not biased against SW. I may dislike George Lucas and the abomination that he and his whipped writers made of the EU and the unoriginal, moronic Gary Stu's that they turned his characters into. I take my time and enjoy the finer likes, like Tales of the Jedi and the KotoR/TOR Era. Better written, more interesting and frankly, the game beats WoW. Already got 4 lv50's in Rakata/Black Hole gear and beaten Denova Story Mode, EV and KP Nightmare. And frankly my Chiss Imperial Agent would kick the shit out of most Prequal Trilogy Jedi.
Post by ReiKai (3,550 posts) See mini bio Level 10
Actually she can do it. Its how she creates the Damascus Blades from her arms. And in Vol15 while fighting Toji she turned the palm of her hand into a cannon and fired a solidus round that punched a whole through his tough giant ass with ease. To change her form was one of the base functions of the Imaginos 1.0 body. It's how she could create plasma jets as well. The Imaginos doesn't possess inherent plasma-generating organs. Alita had to create them herself. Alita has since upgraded to Imaginos2.0 which exceeds all past theoretical limitations.
Post by ReiKai (3,550 posts) See mini bio Level 10
I'd show it but honestly lost the site where I read it. I need to track down Vol15. Hard since the Writer told the company to screw off after he got tired of them interfering with his work and took the rights with him. Tried tracking down other manga sites that'd show the series, but thanks to SOPA (effing mutha'fuggers that they are), most places that aren't shut down have had to remove tons of their uploaded works.
As for Reaction...Luke is barely Super-Sonic dude. He fails utterly there. And Toji can karate-chip a 120story building in half and others like Taraba are absolute beasts as well.
It's a great goddamn series. And again, speed wise, Alita outclasses Luke so much it's not funny.

That was in Imaginos1.0. She's so much faster in Imag2.0 it's absurd. Toji with an EM shield and amped defenses learned from Taraba is so outmatched by Alita it's scary, and she's just screwing around with him.

Which is all pretty funny since, if she wanted to, she could hit Toji's team with her Corrosive Nanomachines and mop the floor with them easily. But she wanted to be sporting about it and let Sechs and Zazie fight their own personal battles too.   
Post by ReiKai (3,550 posts) See mini bio Level 10
Again, the wishful thinking of the uneducated. Tie-Fighters and other spacebattles in SW do not happen at Sublight speeds. You know why? BEcause they wouldn't be able to control themselves or react to what's going on around them. I have read SW novels. Space battles aren't at sub-light speeds. That's for Travel Purposes Only.
Evidence of this is proven in even Newer works, like "Fatal Alliance", when Jet Nebula engaged the Sub-Light drives to his ship for only a Second or Two, in order to pulverize a conglomeration of Hex-Droids by putting out too more energy than they could absorb so quickly.. No space battle in SW is at Sub-light/Relativistic speed. Period. Not in the Movies, not in the Games, and certainly not in the EU.
And, since you forget, TK and other Force Abilities work most effectively with what the Jedi can SEE and PERCEIVE. And, even throwing you something resembling a bone, if Luke could Think and Activate his TK in, say, a few Milliseconds, it's still far, far too slow and he'd be dead long before it ever crossed his mind. Even if I were to, say, even allow the even more implausible idea that Luke could Think and Proceed with an action in a few Microseconds, again, Still. Too. Damn. Slow.
Sechs could make calculations in the Nanosecond variety. Alita is Faster than Sechs.
A Millisecond is 1/1000th of a second. 
A Microsecond is 1/1000000th of a second. 
Nanosecond is 1/1000000000th of a second.
Even granting you some generous Leeway, it still doesn't even remotely change the outcome.
Post by ReiKai (3,550 posts) See mini bio Level 10
Never said they were FTL. And I can tell you right now, No-One in SW is FTL, or lightspeed, or superluminal, or sub-light, or high hyper-sonic, or hyper-sonic.

Also, force clairvoyance/precognition lets a Jedi or Sith affect someone when they're on other ships and planets with their telekinesis

  Precog has absolutely Nothing to do with TK. And if you're say, referring to Vader Force Choking an imperial officer while on Holocall with him, guess what that falls under?

SEEING and PERCEIVING the Target in order to affect them.

Luke has sent messages to people across the galaxy with his telepathy; finding them with his clairvoyance

Telepathy =/= Telekinesis. And Luke did not Zap or Choke or Throw people he was TP'ing. TP is also generally not limited by Range. Even then it requires him to reach out through the force to Find said person in order to TP them.

Luke can also fight whilst flash-blinded because of it. He doesn't need to see Alita to use his telekinesis on her.

If and only If he can Sense her after Seeing her and maintain focus so as not to lose her presence. But also note that Luke does not TK people while Blinded aside from perhaps using TK in a General Direction which only works on individuals slow enough to be hit by him. Which, again, is completely and Utterly useless since Alita can screw with his senses by Projecting her Intentions in Multiple Directions. And, if you took the time to notice, look in the scans above where she was attacked and was seemingly stabbed through the chest.
As Taraba said; "She used Mental Emptiness to manipulate the mind". Even if such were Unintentional on her part, it would mean that Luke cannot pick up on her thoughts nor perceive or Predict what action she is going to take. Which makes all of his precog and sensing abilities worthless.
And, once more, Luke is barely even super-sonic. Whereas Alita is in excess of the high hyper-sonic range.
Post by ReiKai (3,550 posts) See mini bio Level 10

Also, as I've said before, your interpretation of force precognition and clairvoyance is incorrect

Exactly How is it incorrect?

Precognition was a universal Force power.

The ability of foresight was perhaps universal to the Jedi or Force-sensitives and was manifested in the form of Force visions of future events, or helped the Jedi predict his opponent's movements. Carnor Jax trained in the art. Plo Koon's former Master, Tyvokka was known to have advanced precognition powers.

Pretty much it right there and Pretty much exactly what I said it was. And on another note, I would suggest listening to HK-47. And don't bring the "Character Statement" argument into it. What HK-47 says is pretty much EXACTLY what the entire community knows to be true based off numerous evidence within the EU and movies.

They can sense others without the use of their other senses with it, in conjunction with their telepathy to sense the thoughts or feelings of a person

*sigh* no. The only way Jedi can 'sense' others is via the Force and most Jedi do not have Telepathy. What they do is, as HK-47 has said, detect the hostile intentions of those nearby. Something that, as Explained, can be beaten.

That coupled with the fact that they can actually see/sense the future, unlike Sanguis's prediction ability which is based off an extreme amount of experience in combat.

Caerula's ability was not simply from Experience, but from her being a V-type mutant (aka Vampire) and had gone through a period of evolution which enabled this. Her ability is akin to that of the Echani, which does not rely on the Force.

The Echani were known to possess a variant of this ability which did not draw from the Force but from the warrior's own instincts. The most elite Echani warriors were able to predict battles and even the course of a war. It was probable that such outcomes grew more likely or unlikely as critical moments approached and passed.

And, to quote a Master Jedi;
Precog and Visions are not 100% accurate. And Visions do not always show the Immediate future. Q'anilla from the KotoR comics saw a vision of the far distance future. She saw events from the Galactic Empire (With Luke and Vader). Which is almost 4000yrs later.
And as I've said, precog can be beaten. Frankly a Minor distraction can mess with Jedi precog. Nomi Sunrider's husband and Jedi Knight, Andur Sunrider, was killed by 3rd rate Pirates via a poisonous lizard thrown at him while he was distracted by two others stealing lightsaber crystals from Nomi. I will further point out that Non-Force users have often enough killed Force Users.
Luke may be the most powerful Jedi, but he's still a flesh squishy human with fleshy squishy human weaknesses. And all your so-called 'arguments' thus far are completely unsubstantiated.
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