Akatsuki Vs Fantastic Four

Topic started by BladeWade on Jan. 31, 2013. Last post by UltimateHero0406 1 year, 6 months ago.
Post by SilverGalford (2,951 posts) See mini bio Level 11

Chi in marvel may be like chakra but not like the naruto verse with all the explanations . i can have a car made of marble as a statue and a car made of metal with all its components , both are cars but the use is different. just because both are cars doesn't mean they have to work or be exactly the same way .

Chi can be energy in marvel , but it's uncertain if this one is like the naruto chackra which has not been stated . chakra may be like any other culture , but we don't see in any other culture people performing genjutsu , or any similar awesome technique like the naruto verse right?.

besides

chi : Chi is the life force energy that exists within everything. It is the same as Prana inHinduism.

Chakras : it refers to the energy centers that exist within the astral body, which is an electromagnetic template of the physical body. Chi flows through these centers, depending on the will of the individual.

Chi is the energy , Chakra the network , since Chi is used without any Chakra network mentioned in Marvel , then they both cannot be the same. Chakra needs the network and the chi to work .

because of this , the Akatsuki gets stomped

Post by katmic (354 posts) See mini bio Level 10

People, ki, chakra, it is all the same thing. What you are referring to is the different ways in which it is interpreted. to one culture, they only care about the general sense of it, as some kind of life force or essence. To another culture, they like to go into details of how it works, such as the 361 points and 7 gates and all that (which are not kishimoto's creation by the way). Groups will quantify chakra or ki in anyway they want depending on the use. In the east, things like ki/chakra flow and equilibrium and what not matter, so they will work a more detailed system that allows them to quantify how much ki each person has and all that. A marvel character like iron fist doesn't care about the chakra channels in his body, because all he needs to do is focus ki as a general force, so the general idea of ki as some ambiguous energy works for him. Then if you skip to last air bender, aang had to be taught about the seven gates (though he didn't use them) because quantity of ki mattered. if a naruto shinobi took a look at iron first, he might be able to see the chakra channels that iron firs doesn;t.

It is all the same. The argument about chakra not being in FF fails if you consider ki/chakra as a life force that everyone possesses. Secondly you cannot tell which type of ki/chakra system is used in marvel, so i wouldn't be wrong to assume that they use the one with 361 points and chakra channels.

NB: I like the fact that this argument has taken a turn to reasoning out points other than just making statement (eg johnny storm goes super nova. I don't know how many times i have read that argument without sufficient reasoning to support it)

Post by UltimateHero0406 (5,035 posts) See mini bio Level 16

@katmic said:

It is all the same. The argument about chakra not being in FF fails if you consider ki/chakra as a life force that everyone possesses. Secondly you cannot tell which type of ki/chakra system is used in marvel, so i wouldn't be wrong to assume that they use the one with 361 points and chakra channels.

Actually yes we can. By using Iron Fist as an example, we can have a good idea of what is latent in the other Marvelers.

@SilverGalford: So I looked at Iron Fist some more and looked up what he uses. He uses Chi from his soul. But that isn't enough of what I was looking for. Iron Fist's powers originate from K'un L'un which is based on China, so I looked up the Chinese roots of Chi. It is stated that the Chi is let flow through the body by 20 major path ways or meridians that run to limbs and organs. Then I compared it to the Narutoverse Chakra network, also called the Keirakukei which translates to guess what? Meridians. And not only do they have the same name but they also look similar as well (except for the giant swirly in the middle).

So it can be safely said that there is indeed a compatible network. But there are still a few questions that arise here. Such as how one is physical and one is purely a spiritual representation. And there is also the energy composition. Even with WhiteLion's comparison, I was still feeling on the fence.

In the Narutoverse, Chakra is defined as a mixture of energy present in every cell of the body and spiritual energy. It is, like I said, physical as well as spiritual energy. Iron Fist's chi is energy from his soul channeled through his body. So the problem in my mind is, does the physical part need to be there in order to achieve genjutsu? Would the solely spiritual part even count as chakra to genjutsu? Is the soul connected to the brain directly by this half as well? I'm going to say no. The difference I find between Narutoverse chakra and Marvelverse chi is potency. The chakra is more highly reactive to it's environment and has wider effects. I believe that this is because of the physical energy that allows it to leave the body and take shape in the world. The spiritual energy is still in the body but unable to leave the body by normal means without it's physical counterpart. This is the Yin/yang relationship between them. But I personally believe that the physical part is what links chakra to the physical body, including the brain. I believe that the Marvelers don't have this physical portion in the since their cells aren't brimming with energy the way Narutoverse characters are. I mean the stuff pours out of them like it's a bodily function because, well, it most likely is. So I'll say that genjutsu won't be effective without the physical half since I believe that the physical half is what connects their energies to their bodies to have an effect.

Post by WhiteLion (153 posts) See mini bio Level 8

@UltimateHero0406:

To help you out bro. No it doesn't Yin release is where genjutsu falls under. It's spiritual based. Genjutsu doesn't need the phsyical connection, and I posted that with the Yin, and Yang. Genjutsu just uses the Yin. Yin and Yang chakra is the combination of genjutsu like Izanamig, or other stuff they do. Also Genjutsu doesn't affect a chakra network. Just the chakra in the brain and the central nervous system. I do have a question though isn't Iron fist chi something like shou something like a very different type of chi?

Post by UltimateHero0406 (5,035 posts) See mini bio Level 16

@WhiteLion: Oh, that's right. I knew I was missing something. And I knew that it's just in the brain but I was looking for a connection from the spirit to the brain so that the Marverlers could be affected. And no it isn't. Everyone in the Marvelverse has the same chi, it's just that IF is one of the few who can harness it (could be wrong, I'm not an avid follower). But the energy he uses is simply the body's natural energy. He just trained to make it stronger and to do what he wants.

EDIT: Well not the body itself's natural energy but energy from his soul channeled through his body.

Post by SilverGalford (2,951 posts) See mini bio Level 11

@UltimateHero0406 said:

@katmic said:

It is all the same. The argument about chakra not being in FF fails if you consider ki/chakra as a life force that everyone possesses. Secondly you cannot tell which type of ki/chakra system is used in marvel, so i wouldn't be wrong to assume that they use the one with 361 points and chakra channels.

Actually yes we can. By using Iron Fist as an example, we can have a good idea of what is latent in the other Marvelers.

@SilverGalford: So I looked at Iron Fist some more and looked up what he uses. He uses Chi from his soul. But that isn't enough of what I was looking for. Iron Fist's powers originate from K'un L'un which is based on China, so I looked up the Chinese roots of Chi. It is stated that the Chi is let flow through the body by 20 major path ways or meridians that run to limbs and organs. Then I compared it to the Narutoverse Chakra network, also called the Keirakukei which translates to guess what? Meridians. And not only do they have the same name but they also look similar as well (except for the giant swirly in the middle).

Here is the thing

Does china exist in Naruto? No

would that Keirakukei be the same as the one in China? No cause China doesn't exist in naruto.

naruto has seven points , the onther one has many and works differently , how can they be similar? because of the flow of chi? probably , but the points are different and the network too .one is chakra and the other one is chi both have different points,network . unless they learn all the points in the chi energy , it won't work.

In the Narutoverse, Chakra is defined as a mixture of energy present in every cell of the body and spiritual energy. It is, like I said, physical as well as spiritual energy. Iron Fist's chi is energy from his soul channeled through his body

but it has to be chakra ,if it is not like the chakra network in naruto , it cannot work cause it's not chakra. it's still another system and your pics describe them perfectly.

Post by WhiteLion (153 posts) See mini bio Level 8

@SilverGalford:

Okay I'm a bit confused. What's the argument now? That it doesn't work because they don't have a chakra network? Or are you stating that they don't have chakra, or ki and everyone in marvel only has chi?

Because everyone seems to be debating about a chakra network, and not everyone in naturo has the exact same chakra network. All though this wouldn't matter because isn't not the issue of them having a mediran chart or a chakra network itself. Just that if they have chakra, and a brain. Which is what genjutsu under the Yin aspect of chakra, and the yang is actually the physical part, so, as long as they have spiritual based energy. It should work, and yes I do get that there are points where chi, ki and chakra can be considered different but why would an argument be used to say it doesn't have this but only has that. If Naruto called their chakra chi would one say it doesn't work because they have chakra. Having Chi or Chakra network has nothing to do with how the genjutsu would effect one. Ultimate's theory was about chakra having to be part of the physical part for it to also work in part of genjutsu. I've already pointed out that the chakra used in genjutsu is the Yin side. It doesn't require the Yang side of the chakra to be used. Yang isn't needed, or rather it isn't used. Only the Yin is used. The only genjutsu that uses Yin and Yang is Izanagi, which allows ones to control their own existence basically it's warping reality and any wound or whatever they receive is nothing more than an illusion.

Post by WhiteLion (153 posts) See mini bio Level 8

@UltimateHero0406:

Ah okay, I thought that the K'run thing was a special type of chi. Thank you for clearing that up.

Post by UltimateHero0406 (5,035 posts) See mini bio Level 16

@SilverGalford: The point of those is to show that both networks have many terminating points on the brain which is where genjutsu targets. I don't think they have to match exactly. But it may cause a delay in the genjutsu if it is that exact. And that's what I was saying before. We can't just go by name and shape. We have to look at the composition. If genjutsu targets the spiritual portion of chakra, then it could work on chi which has the same composition as chakra minus the cellular energy. Chi is the same as Yin. And if genjutsu really does only focus on Yin energy, then it should match up. But like I said, the slight difference in network may cause problems.

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