How many Kais and Kaioshin in Dragonball?

Topic started by ronki23 on July 14, 2013. Last post by Daniel_Newton 1 year, 1 month ago.
Post by ronki23 (85 posts) See mini bio Level 8

From my Understanding:

Universe:

Dai Kaio and Bills

East Galaxy:

Kaibitio & Old Kai

Grand Kai

King Kai,South Kai,East Kai and West Kai

South Galaxy:

Buff Kaioshin and his Grand Kai and their Kais

Destroyed by Broly

North and West Galaxy:

Moustache and Female Kaioshin and their Kais

Destroyed by Buu

Hell:

Dabura & King Yemma (Yemma does the admin)

Because it makes no sense there being 4 galaxies with one Kai each as it makes Grand Kai pointless in all of this

Post by Sonata (35,337 posts) See mini bio Level 20
Moderator

Current Kai's that are still Alive

  • Old Supreme Kai, The current Supreme Kai who has fused with Kibito (Eastern Supreme Kai)
  • The Grand Kai watches over the 4 Kais
  • King (North) Kai, South Kai, West Kai, East Kai. Watch over their Galaxies
  • King Yemma is not a Kai he simply places the ones who have died to Heaven, Hell, or Other World
  • Dabura is not the King of Hell, but of the Demon World.

The Kai's that were Killed/absorbed by Buu

  • Dai Kaioshin is the highest level known of the Kais
  • Northern Supreme Kai Watches the Northern Section of the Universe
  • Southern Supreme Kai Watches the Southern Section of the Universe.
  • Western Supreme Kai watches the Western section of the Universe.
Post by ronki23 (85 posts) See mini bio Level 8

@Sonata: that would mean there are 16 galaxies then. If each quadrant has 4 galaxies it's 16 galaxies.

I was of the knowledge there were 4 galaxies in the entire Universe,making each 1/4 of the galaxy ruled by a Kai, each galaxy by a Grand Kai, each galaxy or quarter of the Universe by the Supreme Kai and the Universe by Dai Kaioshin.

Is it 4 Kais and 16 Galaxies or 4 Galaxies and 16 Kais (I find this more plausible because 16 galaxies would mean 16 Grand Kais).

Not to mention King Kai says Namek's not in his area which implies Namek's in another part of the galaxy (because I don't think Frieza went to another galaxy for King Kai to know who he was)

Post by Daniel_Newton (3,183 posts) See mini bio Level 20
Moderator

@ronki23: There are only 4 normal Kais (like North/King Kai) I don't know where you got the idea that there are 4 Kais for each quadrant of the universe.

I had a quick skim over the Dragon Ball wiki and it goes something like this:

  • Grand Supreme Kai (1) - oversees the entire universe, both the living world and Other World
  • Supreme Kai (4) - oversees each quadrant of the universe, both the living world and Other World
  • Grand Kai (1) - oversees the entire living universe
  • Kai (4) - oversees each quadrant of the living universe
  • King Yemma - judges who goes to Heaven and Hell
  • Planet Guardians - oversee individual planets, like Kami on Earth, and Guru on Namek

Hell is basically the basement of Other World, presumably the Supreme Kais oversee it like the rest of Other World. Dabura isn't from Hell. He's from the Demon Realm, which is entirely separate from the Dragon Ball Universe. He might be a Makaioshin, the Demon Realm equivalent of the Kaioshin (Kais) which explains why he's so powerful.

Broly didn't kill any Kais, and he isn't even a canonical character anyway.

Because the other Supreme Kais and Grand Supreme Kai were absorbed or killed by Buu years before the series began, it can be assumed that the East Supreme Kai, and later the Elder Kai took their place and oversee the entire universe now.

Bills is a God of Destruction, they don't fall directly into the Kai hierarchy. The Gods of Destruction destroy stuff and the Gods of Creation create stuff, to keep the balance.

Post by Sonata (35,337 posts) See mini bio Level 20
Moderator

@ronki23: Each whole Galaxy is under watch by one of the regular Kais. King Kai stated that Namek was not under his watch means that Namek was not in the North Galaxy, but in one of the other three.

Post by ronki23 (85 posts) See mini bio Level 8

@Daniel_Newton:I never said Broly killed the Kais, he destroyed the South Galaxy.

I don't think there's only 1 Grand Kai- because that still means there are (or were) way too many Supreme Kais and didn't make it clear whether the Kais replaced the KaioSHINs and East Kaioshin became the new Supreme Kai

Also i've not seen Battle of the Gods but the Gods of Destruction seem way too powerful

Post by ronki23 (85 posts) See mini bio Level 8

@Sonata:Broly destroyed the South and Buu destroyed the other 2.

Plus if Namek was in another galaxy he wouldn't know who Frieza was (unless another Kai told him).

If the Kais had one galaxy each, then Grand Kai is random and it's pointless having 4 more Kais above the lower Kais. I can understand if they replaced the Supreme Kais after Buu killed/absorbed them

By the way, King Kai said they (the lower Kais) also fought Buu.

So the lower Kais imprisoned Bojack and they fought alongside the Kaioshin against Buu.

Post by Sonata (35,337 posts) See mini bio Level 20
Moderator

@ronki23: You are getting what canon and not canon crossed up. Broly is non-canon so what he has done has no effect on the main DBZ timeline. Also Buu did not destroy the entire South Galaxy, he terrorized it.

It safe to assume the other Kai's told King Kai about Frieza. Frieza was a monster and a intergalactic Tyrant.

Bojack is also non canon.

Post by Daniel_Newton (3,183 posts) See mini bio Level 20
Moderator

@ronki23 said:

I never said Broly killed the Kais, he destroyed the South Galaxy.

Ah, sorry. But either way the Broly movies aren't canon, so it doesn't matter.

I don't think there's only 1 Grand Kai- because that still means there are (or were) way too many Supreme Kais

No there is definitely only one. That part was made very clear. I understand why you think there are too many Supreme Kais but not all hierarchies are perfect pyramids.

and didn't make it clear whether the Kais replaced the KaioSHINs and East Kaioshin became the new Supreme Kai

It was never made clear, but there was nothing to suggest that the Kais took the Supreme Kais place. It seems to me that either no-one took on the responsibilities of the dead Supreme Kais or the East Supreme Kai did, and then stepped down when the Old Kai appeared.

You might find this page interesting.

Post by DBZ_universe (15,675 posts) See mini bio Level 17

4 Supreme Kaioshins only and Dai Kaioshin

4 Kaios and Grand Kaio

The Kaios are the subjects of the Supreme Kaioshins.

also I don't think Birusu is a Kai.. he is a God of destruction.

There are only 4 Galaxies.

Post by ronki23 (85 posts) See mini bio Level 8

@DBZ_universe: so if Supreme Kaioshin has 4 Kaio, what about the other Supreme Kaioshin/WHY so many Supreme

Post by DBZ_universe (15,675 posts) See mini bio Level 17

@ronki23: No, there are only 4 Supreme Kaishins. The Supreme Kaioshins are the gods of the universe while the Kaios are just watchers of the universe.

Post by ronki23 (85 posts) See mini bio Level 8

@DBZ_universe:

You say the 4 Supreme Kaioshin watch over the Universe but East Supreme Kaioshin seems to be the only one with Kaios? What about the North,West and South?

Post by DBZ_universe (15,675 posts) See mini bio Level 17

@ronki23: OK.

The Supreme Kaioshins are the Gods or leaders you can say while the N,E,W,S Kaios are there underlings. that is how it works.

Post by Daniel_Newton (3,183 posts) See mini bio Level 20
Moderator

@ronki23 said:

but East Supreme Kaioshin seems to be the only one with Kaios?

The Kais aren't "his" - it only seems that way because the East Supreme Kai is the only Supreme Kai left.

Post by ronki23 (85 posts) See mini bio Level 8

@DBZ_universe: which implies that there are 4 Kais per Supreme Kaioshin equalling 16

Which implies that before this first Buu period, the Kaioshins acted as the Kais and Dai Kaioshin acted as Supreme Kai. Though that would mean XXI (or the Z of Dragonball Z who sealed away Old Kai in the sword) was defeated by Dai Kaioshin/beatable by a Kaioshin.

The Kais also fought Buu alongside the Kaioshin. How they survived is beyond me

Post by DBZ_universe (15,675 posts) See mini bio Level 17

@ronki23: There are only 10 in total and 4 Galaxies

Post by Daniel_Newton (3,183 posts) See mini bio Level 20
Moderator

@ronki23 said:

which implies that there are 4 Kais per Supreme Kaioshin equalling 16

That was never implied. There are four Kais, one for each quadrant of the living world. There are four Supreme Kais, one for each quadrant of the universe (both the living world and other world). That's it. That's how it works.

Which implies that before this first Buu period, the Kaioshins acted as the Kais and Dai Kaioshin acted as Supreme Kai.

I think this is where you're getting confused. Like I said above, the Kais oversee the living world and the Supreme Kais oversee both the living world and other world. They share responsibilities when it comes to the living world, but the Supreme Kais have more responsibilities overall. In a sense the regular Kais are just helping the Supreme Kais.

Though that would mean XXI (or the Z of Dragonball Z who sealed away Old Kai in the sword) was defeated by Dai Kaioshin/beatable by a Kaioshin.

What? What are you even talking about? The being who sealed Old Kai in the Z Sword was never named. He/she was stated to be powerful, but not more powerful than Buu. I don't know where you got this "XXI" or "Z" person from.

The Kais also fought Buu alongside the Kaioshin. How they survived is beyond me

No they didn't. Nobody ever said that.

I'm starting to think you've been reading Dragon Ball Z fan fiction or something and you're getting it all mixed up with the official storyline.

Post by DBZ_universe (15,675 posts) See mini bio Level 17

The Kaios never fought Buu lol

Post by ronki23 (85 posts) See mini bio Level 8

It also turns out that he fought the monster Majin Buu, as the North Kai reminds him in the Kid Buu Saga. He does not recognize Buu at first, wondering if he is training or "trying to kill us." When he remembers Buu, he teases Pikkon with the obvious truth that Buu is much stronger than him, much to Pikkon's dismay.

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