Watch & Learn: CODE GEASS #4

Topic started by No_name_here on April 14, 2011. Last post by ninjadude853 3 years, 5 months ago.
Post by No_name_here (856 posts) See mini bio Level 11
Staff
 Look at him. Theater is COURSING through this young man's very veins.
 Look at him. Theater is COURSING through this young man's very veins.

Would it have killed them to throw in some scene showing that Lelouch is at least sporadically involved in his school’s theater program? I can buy him having a super power that allows him to command anybody to do anything he wants (if only once, and provided that he make eye contact with them…) but pulling off a live performance in the street like that immediately makes me wonder if he brought the dude behind the Beijing Olympics’ opening ceremonies in as a consultant. I don’t know: you shouldn’t judge a book by its cover (or a terrorist by his mask) but Lelouch hasn’t struck me as a young man with a particularly theatrical bent in his soul.

I could bring up more comparisons to DEATH NOTE here (blackmailing somebody, by cell phone, on a mass transit train… where have I seen that before?) but I’m seeing stronger similarities to the most theatrical of terrorists in this one. That is, V… of whose vendetta many have heard.  It’s an interesting touch that Britannians aren't simply an evil occupying empire; they’ve also got a strongly Orwellian bureaucracy who like to manipulate their state run media in a way that’s more-than-likely going to hinder their own operations. Let’s just hope “Zero” doesn’t pontificate for as long as V was wont to.

Suzaku proves himself to be a valiant and honorable today. He remains loyal to his country, even when after they’ve betrayed in such an obvious fashion. While I do prefer the avoidance of padding and redundancies in a serial, I do wish they would’ve held off on this particular reversal of relationships a little longer. There was still some mileage to be had in putting Lelouch and this guy at odds - - as hated enemies -  before having them reach out to eachother as potential friends. One battle gets the point across, sure, but it doesn’t feel like a satisfying number.

Then again, Suzaku does reject the whole “join me” offer, so there may be plenty of more conflict between them.

Watch this episode "His Name is Zero” below, decide for yourself and then read my comments on the previous episode here.  

Tom Pinchuk’s the writer of  HYBRID BASTARDS!  &  UNIMAGINABLE . Order them on Amazon   here  &   here .  Follow him on Twitter:  @tompinchuk

Post by SamJaz (12,848 posts) See mini bio Level 20
Online Now
You're gonna love it. You are gonna love it.
Post by eldiax (130 posts) See mini bio Level 14
@SamJaz said:
" You're gonna love it. You are gonna love it. "
This, and this. It hasn't even started with the crazy-ass plot twists that will bend your mind even more than Death Note.
Post by endaround (19 posts) See mini bio Level 7
Zero makes V look like a piker when it comes to giving speeches.
Post by AgentJ (1,545 posts) See mini bio Level 13
For Lelouche, the theatrics are a means to an end. Lelouche - Suzaku may be the most compelling relationship since Light - L, but we have a ways to go on that front.
Post by Lurkero (411 posts) See mini bio Level 7
That's one difference between Light and Lelouch. Light was good at his monologue, but Lelouch is good at inspiring others with his incendiary and theatrical speech. I love it because while I was watching the show I never felt that Lelouch was overdoing it.
Post by ninjadude853 (464 posts) See mini bio Level 12
 I believe my abridged description of this show back when i was suggesting it was in fact: "V for Vendetta meets Death Note... with mechs" Told you.

I love it when Lelouch starts hamming it up as Zero, it's so damn entertaining. And Diethard (the blond guy with the camera) COMPLETELY agrees.

As for the relationship between Lelouch and Suzaku? You are not going to be disappointed.
Post by kashif1 (1,813 posts) See mini bio Level 13
No one hams like Johny young Bosch
Post by sotyfan16 (1,341 posts) See mini bio Level 20
This episode shows but a taste of how Zero does grand scale work. I can't enough about how much I like this series as it offers so many pieces of different genres to please a wide range of fans.
Post by FoxxFireArt (2,643 posts) See mini bio Level 25
Moderator
There are a few similarities between Code Geass and V for Vendetta. Even more so in the second season, but I wont go into that.

This episode is one of the reasons why I seriously don't get Suzaku's motivations (at least until I had learned more behind what he was really after). He refuses Zero's offer just because he says that misleading people is worth the outcome. Lelouch pulled off a brilliant move and not one life was lost. So, Suzaku instead goes back to the power structure that goes on whole sale genocide. That makes no sense.

One of Lelouch's trademarks for battle is to pull off impressive victories with simple means. He knows that world powers such as Britannia is over powered that they don't have the skill to deal with gorilla warfare. That's because they don't have the support of the people.

" Then again, Suzaku does reject the whole “join me” offer, so there may be plenty of more conflict between them. "


This is a 25 episode series and this is episode 4. Pretty obvious this wont be the last time these two clash.
Post by ninjadude853 (464 posts) See mini bio Level 12
@FoxxFireArt: The reason Suzaku didn't follow Zero was because he understood that Zero was gonna launch a rebellion of (most likely) terrorism. He believes that all victories gained through contemptible (read: illegal) means aren't worth getting because they're ultimately lies. He goes back to Britannia because, like it or not, they are legally in charge, and defying them is only gonna get people hurt and killed.

Just for the record, i think he's a moron.
Post by FoxxFireArt (2,643 posts) See mini bio Level 25
Moderator
@ninjadude853:
You're projection. He said no such thing.  His issue is that he thinks Zero is all about the ends justify the means. He sees that to being like his father. Lelouch scared a lot of people, but no one was ever in any harm. Yeah, people get hurt and killed in war, but Lelouch purposely avoids needless death. Britannia aims to commit genocide and kill as many innocent Japanese as possible. So, he sides with people that he knows is committing "legal"mass murder. Zero is fighting to end that.

Even then, his real motive for staying with Britannia is completely self serving. The whole issue of it being like his father is absolute crap.
Post by ninjadude853 (464 posts) See mini bio Level 12
@FoxxFireArt: Honestly, I'm not entirely convinced that he's entirely aware of what happened to his dad at this point. I believe that it's essentially a repressed memory until Mao digs it up and waves it in his face.

And this series isn't that black and white. Britannia's goal isn't to wipe out the Japanese, it's to control their supply of Sakuradite. The Empire is of course the most evil faction in the series, but it's not like its as bad as say, Nazi Germany, which actually did try to wipe out an entire ethnicity.
Post by FoxxFireArt (2,643 posts) See mini bio Level 25
Moderator
@ninjadude853:
Did you miss the wanton genocide at the first episode, and how the media covered it up blaming it all on "terrorists"?

Let's also not forget that in a later episode Cornelia blatantly says that discrimination of the Numbers is official policy. Just because they want the Sakuradite doesn't excuse mass-murder. They were slaughtering innocent women and children. Also in a later episode, Cornelia orders the murder at a ghetto hospital just to draw out Zero. What, you wouldn't call Rawanda or Bosnian slaughters genocide a genocide because they were all the same race killing each other? I think the people who lived through those would disagree. In the conflict area of Africa, the forces at hand wanted resources and political power. The repression and slaughter of the people is how they get it.
Post by ninjadude853 (464 posts) See mini bio Level 12
@FoxxFireArt: Okay, first of all, calm down. I may be wrong, but you're message comes across as really angry. It's a fictitious story, not real life.

Second, i didn't say they were good, only an idiot would think that. I just say they weren't as evil as Nazi Germany and that the series wasn't too black and white. And i wasn't saying that wanting Sakuradite was a justification for the things they do, it's not... at all. It shows how ridiculously power hungry and greedy Britannia is. And besides, it's not like they commit genocide for kicks, they do it for specific reasons, usually involving the terrorists that directly attack them. And before you think that that's another justification, it isn't. If i were apart of a conquered nation you bet your ass i'd fight against them, and the Japanese are right to fight back.

Look, like I said before, Britannia is evil. Just not as evil as everyone makes them out to be. They could sure as hell be a lot worse.
Post by FoxxFireArt (2,643 posts) See mini bio Level 25
Moderator
@ninjadude853:

"I may be wrong, but you're message comes across as really angry"

Okay, you're wrong.

I'm pointing out that genocide isn't just Nazi genocide. There are all kinds throughout history for a variety of reasons. WWII is just the most famous. Much of the Crusades counts as genocide.

Suzaku sides with a force that went on a streak of mass murder of innocent civilians. They weren't just killing anyone who got in their way. They systematically went through housing killing room to room as if they were exterminators killing bugs. It was ordered by Clovis and no soldier seemed to have the slightest problem with that. In fact, they seemed to enjoy it.
Post by ninjadude853 (464 posts) See mini bio Level 12
@FoxxFireArt:  All I'm saying is that the country isn't pure evil. It's a lot like the Roman Empire, as long as the nations they conquer keep quiet, they won't act heavy handed. But when those nations resist (As they should). The conqueror cracks down hard. And that's how Suzaku sees it. He wants to take the road with the least bloodshed, and that really is cooperation with Britannia.

And that's also why the rebels are right, because the kind of peace Suzaku wants is ultimately a humiliating lie. Some things are just worth fighting for, no matter the cost.

But that's beside the point I'm trying to make. What i'm saying is that this series has very little perfect definitions of good and evil. The majority of Britannian characters aren't really evil, they're just the products of their racist, Social Darwinist society. They perpetuate evil acts because they don't see anything wrong with them.

As for the other side of the coin, Lelouch is not good. He's not flat out evil, but he's not good. And that's part of the reason i love this series. The black and gray morality.
Post by Lemegeton300 (300 posts) See mini bio Level 10
i adored Code Geass and still have to watch season 2. the dynamic between Lelouch and Suzaku is thoroughly engaging
Post by VanTesla (30 posts) See mini bio Level 10

Suzaku almost seems like he tries to ignore truth or does little in trying to find the truth about major things... Suzaku lives in his own fantasy world.
Post by vergilius (147 posts) See mini bio Level 13

 Lelouch hasn’t struck me as a young man with a particularly theatrical bent in his soul. 

Oh, you have no idea.

This show does the moral ambiguity thing really well...there are times you sympathize with Suzaku, times you sympathize with Lelouch, and there are times when you wonder if Lelouch has started believing his own hype too much, been consumed by the monster he's created. I like the V for Vendetta comparison, what with the mask and the penchant for theatricality. There are Death Note elements, too, for sure, but that show didn't have moral ambiguity so much as a villain protagonist and an antagonist with shades of grey.

There are shades of Evangelion in here, actually, but we haven't gotten far enough for them to be apparent yet.

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