Black Jack Forum

@FoxxFireArt said:

" @Killajade:  If Japanese culture is that irritating to you, then why are you reading Japanese 4komas in the first place? "

I didn't say it was irritating thats you putting words in my mouth, and its more sad then anything else since when i come by a page and got no clue about the point or joke(for exampel jokes that reference companies or tv programs that i probably will never see or hear about) i just get this empty feeling inside because i want to know and i normally really love 4-koma's.

@Killajade:  
That's always the risk you take when you are reading something that comes from another culture. It's an excuse to educate yourself so you will get it.
The amount of series that reference real TV programs or companies is pretty small. The only series I've ever seen that does that frequently is Sayonara Zetsubou Sensei.

Translator notes are more often there to explain jokes so you can get it.

I think hiring scanlaters or fansubbers is a risky move.  They've shown how much they respect copyright laws and how hesitant they are to leak things without permission. 
 
Digital delivery seems great but at the same time I also hear a lot of people say things like they would never buy a digital version of something, despite the fact that they consume close to 100% of the manga and anime digitally. 
 
I welcome it though.  I've had computers in my house since I was 4 years old so I'm pretty comfortable with digital things and it's my preferred method of content delivery.  With laptops, netbooks, tablets and high resolution phones, it's getting easier and easier to view this type of stuff digitally.
   
@FoxxFireArt said: 

" Then there is that over sensitive P.C. alterationVIZ made to One Piece. Where they renamed God Eneru to Kami Evenru. Every mention of the word "God" in the entire Skypia Story Arc was removed and replaced with "Kami". In the Japanese version they are saying in English, "God Eneru". "

And then you have stuff like this where the most minor and irrelevant of factors become major deal breakers for people.

@sickVisionz said:

" @FoxxFireArt said: 

" Then there is that over sensitive P.C. alterationVIZ made to One Piece. Where they renamed God Eneru to Kami Eneru. Every mention of the word "God" in the entire Skypia Story Arc was removed and replaced with "Kami". In the Japanese version they are saying in English, "God Eneru". "

And then you have stuff like this where the most minor and irrelevant of factors become major deal breakers for people. "

This isn't a "minor irrelevant factor" It's the character's names. It's what he is called repeatedly througout the entire book. In the whole story arc there is the idea that he might be an actual god.
In scenes were Zoro says something blasphemous against god. There is a cut back to Nami who is suddenly praying and is bathed in this mock holy light, claiming she isn't with Zoro and to give her lots of treasure. This kind of scene happens repeatedly. Later, near the end of the arc, Conis starts to question if there is really a god, and she starts to pray.
There is no valid reason other then P.C. oversensitivity to switch God with Kami. It's idiotic.
 
I see how VIZ has a valid reason to change Zoro to Zolo. There was a possible copyright issue. They didn't chnage his name to something drastic such as Zed. They switch one letter in his name.

@FoxxFireArt: They changed it from God to God.  There's a strong case to say that the original is in Japanese with this one character named in English so in the English version they flipped it so that it still stands out as much as it would in the original. 
 
Even if it wasn't, the change has no impact on anything at all in the story arc, the character or the franchise.

@sickVisionz: 
You aren't getting it. It was VIZ that flipped it.
 
This is a company that has always removed Japanese terms and replaced them with English terms. They changed the Shichibukai to "Seven Warlords of the Sea" and Den Den Mushi to "transponder snail" as two examples.
 
In the Japanese version. Eneru is literally called "Goddo Eneru". They are saying "God" in English for the Japanese version. So, that means VIZ took a word that as being said in English for the Japanese version, and switched it to a Japanese word for the English version.
At no point in the manga does VIZ explain what a Kami even is. It doesn't explain why Zoro is saying he doesn't believe in or ever prayed to "Kami".
 
For Detective Conan, the two main villain are Gin and Vodka in the Japanese version. They are using English words in a Japanese book. The theme of this Black Organization is that they all wear black and have the code name of liquors. There is Vermouth, Chianti, and Bourbon. Still, for the US publication. VIZ changed their names from Gin and Vodka to Melkior and Kaspar. The best I can tell is that these are obscure names from the Bible. I'm not even sure how to pronounce them properly, but they switched out two easily known to read names for them. Thus destroying the entire theme of all the bad guys in the series.
 
When it comes to scanlations you are always sure you will never have to put up with this P.C. Bull-. It's why they are superior to VIZ.

@FoxxFireArt: I understand that Viz changed it but to me the One Piece change is crazy minute and irrelevant to enjoying or understanding the manga.  But to each their own.

@sickVisionz: 
It's not about that series it's about the publisher as a whole. They are no nearly as accurate or dedicated as scanlation groups. The God Eneru issue is just one example of what they do in numerous series. Making absolutely idiotic and pointless alterations to series. VIZ doesn't just publish and translate the way Del Rey or Yen Press do. VIZ changes stories and offers no alternatives to their alterations.
 
These kind of alterations you don't have to deal with in scanlations. People want the real story and not have to deal with what VIZ decides to change it to.  VIZ isn't worth supporting, because they do not even try to provide the best product possible.
 
It's the same thing as to why in VIZ's version of One Piece do they constantly call the military on the series Navy when all the sails of the ships and all their uniforms say in English "MARINE". No one in the whole series ever wears a uniform that says "NAVY". What they change the characters to say completely contradicts what is on the page in the art work.

While I am all for accuracy in translations, sometimes I wonder who's right. There always seem to be a lot of people who will claim that fansubs or scanlations are more accurate than their licensed counterparts, while at the same time (most of) those people are unable to read or comprehend Japanese in the first place. I'm certain that one does not get a job with Viz or any other North American anime/manga producer without being extremely competent in both English and Japanese. Which means to me that deviation from the literal translation was likely an editorial decision. On smaller titles I'm sure it wouldn't matter so much, but on something as potentially large and potentially mainstream as One Piece I'm sure Viz is treading very carefully to make their title accessible to those outside the established fandom. Sure, once in a while (or perhaps constantly depending on how thin your skin is) they'll do obnoxious edits, but I think those sorts of decisions are made with the bottom line in mind. And while it would be nice to believe that it's all about the author's original words and creativity.. these things still have to sell for there to be more of them down the road.  I know I was outraged over the censorship of Tenjho Tenge when CMX released it, however, given the choice between getting it released legally in North America with a few nipples hidden, or not getting it at all, it seemed like an obvious choice. In TenTen's case I think the terrible part was CMX's tagline about how they were bringing you "pure" manga and it was terribly obvious that the material had been altered. With regards to Detective Conan, I do agree that the name changes are silly.. but if you consider what the target market for the title in North America would be (outside of established fandom), then changing the names of the characters from alcohol references to something else makes sense. While at the same time I don't want to endorse the slash-and-burn editing of 4Kids' One Piece.. there has to be some leniency from both sides.
 
Scanlations are here to stay sadly. I think they're a good thing when they occupy the same role that fansubs used to offer way back in the day (and still do to a lesser extent)  - unlicensed titles, especially those that will never see the light of day across the ocean, and long-since abandoned titles.. I know there are series, like the above-mentioend TenTen, that I would never have discovered without scanlations. However, that being said, it's nearly all just an excuse for piracy, laziness or just being impatient now. In this day and age of online stores, there's nothing (other than having money to actually pay for your entertainment) stopping you from buying from anywhere in the world. This is all just entertainment, a luxury. It's not a right, and if you are watching or reading it you should be paying for it. If you can't afford it, maybe you should get a job, or re-prioritize your disposable income, or just accept that you can't afford to enjoy that particular hobby.

I read scans. There is no denying that. I will always read them if they are available. But then I will go out and buy the manga. I have tons of manga. It kills me parents when I tell them how much they have spent on buying my manga. But you know most people don't do this. All of us here who care to  post on this issue and express our opinion, we support the industry and we buy manga. But I know for a fact that people who read scans don't always go and buy the manga. A lot of my friends only read scans cause they think "why buy it when I can get it for free."  
 
I disagree with my friends because if we didn't buy it there wouldn't be any manga for us to read in the first place.  
 
Now most people blame the big sites like mangafox and onemanga because they are benefiting from the scanlations. I myself would be somewhat disappointed if mangafox or onemanga were to close only because then I wouldn't be able to quickly access manga that doesn't come out in America. Yes mangafox is a big manga site that gets millions of views a day but it's not like they put the scans up there. The scanlation groups put the scans up there. Their own choice to do that. Mangafox and other big sites are just more convenient and I don't have to worry about viruses from downloading rar. But the truth is I could survive without them. I'll deal with my crappy viz media manga and deal with not having some manga because they aren't released in America. The truth is that is life. We shouldn't bash the Manga companies so much because the truth is they don't have to distribute here. They choose to. If you don't like their translations. Deal with it. Learn f-ing japanese and maybe then you'll be satisfied.